rec.autos.simulators

> > The issue I have is with companies buying up the exclusive rights to a
> > particular sport, activity. etc.  It cannot be good in the long run.
> > What do we have now for F1 sims since Sony bought it up? Nothing for
> > the PC.  I will not support or purchase anything from EA.  It also
> > helps that I can't stand nascar and everything about it.

> Well, as for the last point, no one can do anything about that.  That's
> actually the most reasonable and understandable part of your post!

> As far as the exclusive licensing buying binge: I know of no one on the
> consumer side that likes what is going on.  But really, the objections
> are based upon what we BELIEVE will happen and upon generalities, no
> evidence.  For instance, having secured the NASCAR license, there was
> absolutely nothing forcing EA to go the extra mile to make a sim for
> the PC.  There's not that much money in it compared to the console
> titles, and the *** sim community isn't exactly as huge as, say,
> the "World of Warcraft" community or the <insert first person shooter
> de jour here> community.   On the other hand, I can also say from
> personal experience that the guys on the NSR team have been putting in
> days that are stretching until the wee hours of the morning (4-6AM)
> trying to fix NSR issues that are preventing leagues from switching
> over to that product.  They have been, as a team, very responsive to
> criticism and are taking these issues VERY seriously.  It's easy to
> blast impersonal corporate entities, but be careful.  There are teams
> inside those 'entities' with living breathing people who are busting
> their collective butts right now trying to make the sim racing
> community happy.  Don't be in such an all-out hurry to write them off,
> or punish THEM because they happen to work for a huge publisher.

> I've dealt directly with the people from Papyrus and other sim makers
> and modders and the people working on NSR do not fall short in their
> dedication to getting it right.

> I hate what's happening at the corporate level with EA, buying up
> licenses for years at a time, and I *do* fret about what MIGHT happen
> in the future because of this.  At the same time, I recognize that the
> guys who are pounding the bugs out of NSR at 3 AM are not the same
> people who are trying to corner exclusive licenses, and I try to treat
> them accordingly.

> Randy

>> > The issue I have is with companies buying up the exclusive rights to a
>> > particular sport, activity. etc.  It cannot be good in the long run.
>> > What do we have now for F1 sims since Sony bought it up? Nothing for
>> > the PC.  I will not support or purchase anything from EA.  It also
>> > helps that I can't stand nascar and everything about it.

>> Well, as for the last point, no one can do anything about that.  That's
>> actually the most reasonable and understandable part of your post!

>> As far as the exclusive licensing buying binge: I know of no one on the
>> consumer side that likes what is going on.  But really, the objections
>> are based upon what we BELIEVE will happen and upon generalities, no
>> evidence.  For instance, having secured the NASCAR license, there was
>> absolutely nothing forcing EA to go the extra mile to make a sim for
>> the PC.  There's not that much money in it compared to the console
>> titles, and the *** sim community isn't exactly as huge as, say,
>> the "World of Warcraft" community or the <insert first person shooter
>> de jour here> community.   On the other hand, I can also say from
>> personal experience that the guys on the NSR team have been putting in
>> days that are stretching until the wee hours of the morning (4-6AM)
>> trying to fix NSR issues that are preventing leagues from switching
>> over to that product.  They have been, as a team, very responsive to
>> criticism and are taking these issues VERY seriously.  It's easy to
>> blast impersonal corporate entities, but be careful.  There are teams
>> inside those 'entities' with living breathing people who are busting
>> their collective butts right now trying to make the sim racing
>> community happy.  Don't be in such an all-out hurry to write them off,
>> or punish THEM because they happen to work for a huge publisher.

>> I've dealt directly with the people from Papyrus and other sim makers
>> and modders and the people working on NSR do not fall short in their
>> dedication to getting it right.

>> I hate what's happening at the corporate level with EA, buying up
>> licenses for years at a time, and I *do* fret about what MIGHT happen
>> in the future because of this.  At the same time, I recognize that the
>> guys who are pounding the bugs out of NSR at 3 AM are not the same
>> people who are trying to corner exclusive licenses, and I try to treat
>> them accordingly.

>> Randy

>>I can vouchsafe eveything Randy sez is true.  The NSR team didn't push the
>> product out the door and go on vacation (or to work on the PSP port),
>> they've been working steadily and diligently on the product ever since.
>> They are solving probs and they will get it right and in the end ***
>> sim players will reap the benefits.

>>> > The issue I have is with companies buying up the exclusive rights to a
>>> > particular sport, activity. etc.  It cannot be good in the long run.
>>> > What do we have now for F1 sims since Sony bought it up? Nothing for
>>> > the PC.  I will not support or purchase anything from EA.  It also
>>> > helps that I can't stand nascar and everything about it.

>>> Well, as for the last point, no one can do anything about that.  That's
>>> actually the most reasonable and understandable part of your post!

>>> As far as the exclusive licensing buying binge: I know of no one on the
>>> consumer side that likes what is going on.  But really, the objections
>>> are based upon what we BELIEVE will happen and upon generalities, no
>>> evidence.  For instance, having secured the NASCAR license, there was
>>> absolutely nothing forcing EA to go the extra mile to make a sim for
>>> the PC.  There's not that much money in it compared to the console
>>> titles, and the *** sim community isn't exactly as huge as, say,
>>> the "World of Warcraft" community or the <insert first person shooter
>>> de jour here> community.   On the other hand, I can also say from
>>> personal experience that the guys on the NSR team have been putting in
>>> days that are stretching until the wee hours of the morning (4-6AM)
>>> trying to fix NSR issues that are preventing leagues from switching
>>> over to that product.  They have been, as a team, very responsive to
>>> criticism and are taking these issues VERY seriously.  It's easy to
>>> blast impersonal corporate entities, but be careful.  There are teams
>>> inside those 'entities' with living breathing people who are busting
>>> their collective butts right now trying to make the sim racing
>>> community happy.  Don't be in such an all-out hurry to write them off,
>>> or punish THEM because they happen to work for a huge publisher.

>>> I've dealt directly with the people from Papyrus and other sim makers
>>> and modders and the people working on NSR do not fall short in their
>>> dedication to getting it right.

>>> I hate what's happening at the corporate level with EA, buying up
>>> licenses for years at a time, and I *do* fret about what MIGHT happen
>>> in the future because of this.  At the same time, I recognize that the
>>> guys who are pounding the bugs out of NSR at 3 AM are not the same
>>> people who are trying to corner exclusive licenses, and I try to treat
>>> them accordingly.

>>> Randy

>Just to make it official: plonk.

>Time for you to think a of new alias, again.

>Jan.
>=---

> By the harsh definition of 'turd' that you are applying to NSR, some of
> Papyrus' first releases were turds too.  Without lots of fixes for
> rules and multiplayer bugs, combined with lots of modding from the
> community, where would those sims be?  (And I do know of what I speak
> here -- you'll see me listed in the beta credits for N2, so I remember
> the kinds of issues they decided to ship with and deal with later).
> I'm not saying this to condemn Papy at all.  I'm just saying that I
> grow rather weary of the two extremes being the only ones used:  It
> either is better than Papy or it's a turd, to use your lingo.

> Randy

> Fred

>>> Technically I wouldn't call them mods at all. They were implemented by
>>> papyrus people after all.
>> I resent that remark.. I, along with TonyK and TheUSPits made the Aero88
>> mod. We did/do not work for Papyrus, and more specifically, had to
>> Reverse Engineer all of the data formats in order to create that mod
>> among others.

>> Fred

> It uses the CTS physics does it not?
> Busch, CTS, Trans Am- these are the specific "mods" I was under the
> impression were being discussed (being edits of the exe files).
> The Aero88 mod is great, I don't know where you got the impression I was
> making any resentful remarks about it.

> cheers
> John

> Mitch

> >A blog would be nice...for the people who already bought the game and
those
> >who would like to.  With EA's track record with patches I think it would
> >have a positive effect.  I'd buy NSR right now if I knew EA was committed
> >to getting it right...

> >>I can vouchsafe eveything Randy sez is true.  The NSR team didn't push
the
> >> product out the door and go on vacation (or to work on the PSP port),
> >> they've been working steadily and diligently on the product ever since.
> >> They are solving probs and they will get it right and in the end
***
> >> sim players will reap the benefits.

> >>> > The issue I have is with companies buying up the exclusive rights to
a
> >>> > particular sport, activity. etc.  It cannot be good in the long run.
> >>> > What do we have now for F1 sims since Sony bought it up? Nothing for
> >>> > the PC.  I will not support or purchase anything from EA.  It also
> >>> > helps that I can't stand nascar and everything about it.

> >>> Well, as for the last point, no one can do anything about that.
That's
> >>> actually the most reasonable and understandable part of your post!

> >>> As far as the exclusive licensing buying binge: I know of no one on
the
> >>> consumer side that likes what is going on.  But really, the objections
> >>> are based upon what we BELIEVE will happen and upon generalities, no
> >>> evidence.  For instance, having secured the NASCAR license, there was
> >>> absolutely nothing forcing EA to go the extra mile to make a sim for
> >>> the PC.  There's not that much money in it compared to the console
> >>> titles, and the *** sim community isn't exactly as huge as, say,
> >>> the "World of Warcraft" community or the <insert first person shooter
> >>> de jour here> community.   On the other hand, I can also say from
> >>> personal experience that the guys on the NSR team have been putting in
> >>> days that are stretching until the wee hours of the morning (4-6AM)
> >>> trying to fix NSR issues that are preventing leagues from switching
> >>> over to that product.  They have been, as a team, very responsive to
> >>> criticism and are taking these issues VERY seriously.  It's easy to
> >>> blast impersonal corporate entities, but be careful.  There are teams
> >>> inside those 'entities' with living breathing people who are busting
> >>> their collective butts right now trying to make the sim racing
> >>> community happy.  Don't be in such an all-out hurry to write them off,
> >>> or punish THEM because they happen to work for a huge publisher.

> >>> I've dealt directly with the people from Papyrus and other sim makers
> >>> and modders and the people working on NSR do not fall short in their
> >>> dedication to getting it right.

> >>> I hate what's happening at the corporate level with EA, buying up
> >>> licenses for years at a time, and I *do* fret about what MIGHT happen
> >>> in the future because of this.  At the same time, I recognize that the
> >>> guys who are pounding the bugs out of NSR at 3 AM are not the same
> >>> people who are trying to corner exclusive licenses, and I try to treat
> >>> them accordingly.

> >>> Randy

> On the one hand, you've got yer EA/Tiburon/ISI/SimBin faction.  On the
> other: Papy/FIRST/Redline/Wildfire/et alia.  The latter is tightly
> controlled by a secretive cabal in Boston, and can only be/get as good as
> Darth Vader (DK, now that he's gone over to the Dark Side) wants it to be.
> These guys have a clear lead in multiplayer expertise and useability.
> They're behind in terms of the physics model...at least for now.

> > Ya gotta realize that, despite the apparent diversity (number of
titles),
> > the sim-racing world is basically down to two camps/groups/poles.

> > On the one hand, you've got yer EA/Tiburon/ISI/SimBin faction.  On the
> > other: Papy/FIRST/Redline/Wildfire/et alia.  The latter is tightly
> > controlled by a secretive cabal in Boston, and can only be/get as good
as
> > Darth Vader (DK, now that he's gone over to the Dark Side) wants it to
be.
> > These guys have a clear lead in multiplayer expertise and useability.
> > They're behind in terms of the physics model...at least for now.
> <snip>

> Phew, thanks for clearing that one up, Steve! Problem is I am feeling a
bit
> of a pschitzo at the moment, long term Papy fan whose finally got the
latest
> GTR demo running nicely. What to do? I'm torn, torn I tell ya...

> > Ya gotta realize that, despite the apparent diversity (number of
titles),
> > the sim-racing world is basically down to two camps/groups/poles.

> > On the one hand, you've got yer EA/Tiburon/ISI/SimBin faction.  On the
> > other: Papy/FIRST/Redline/Wildfire/et alia.  The latter is tightly
> > controlled by a secretive cabal in Boston, and can only be/get as good
as
> > Darth Vader (DK, now that he's gone over to the Dark Side) wants it to
be.
> > These guys have a clear lead in multiplayer expertise and useability.
> > They're behind in terms of the physics model...at least for now.
> <snip>

> Phew, thanks for clearing that one up, Steve! Problem is I am feeling a
bit
> of a pschitzo at the moment, long term Papy fan whose finally got the
latest
> GTR demo running nicely. What to do? I'm torn, torn I tell ya...