rec.autos.simulators

I`m looking for good force feedback settings for GPL and a Microsoft USB
Sidewinder force feedback wheel.

Also, if anyone knows how to stop the FF with the Microsoft draining so much
CPU time whilst runing GPL =)

Regards,

Richard

CPU time...you'd have to talk to MS about that one.

Marc.

Mike

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I think you mistook what I was trying to say. Actually, I may not have typed
it out as I intended. I'll try to summarize below:

- The 4.0 software is NOT needed to use this wheel in Win98 or Win2000 with
FF and split axis.

- If you plug in the USB wheel without the 4.0 software installed, the OS
will automatically set it up as: Steering X1, Throttle Y1, and Brake Y2. The
downside to this is you can't adjust the FF strength, the centering
strength, and a few other options.

- FF will be enabled by default without 4.0 software! Now you have to enable
it in the games. For games that don't support FF, I just hit the "Force"
button on the wheel to make it easier to handle.

- In most games, the 4.0 software appears to cause an additional performance
hit ON TOP of the normal FF hit. e.g. in Nascar Heat, I lose 4-5 FPS with FF
enabled and NO 4.0 software. With the 4.0 software, I lose 12-15 FPS and FF
enabled.

-Disabling the software does not appear to help. Only by removing it (it can
be removed in Win98, it CANNOT be removed in Win2000) will you see the
benefits.

Like I said, these were the observations I made on two BX based systems. BX
systems have USB 1.0 support. Some newer systems have USB 1.1; I'm not sure
if that helps or not. In both of my systems, removing the 4.0 software made
quite a difference. FF enabled in a game still cause a slight hit but not a
huge hit like with the 4.0 software. This problem seems to be consistent
with the fact that only MSFF USB wheel users are having problems with CPU
utilization. The gameport users use 3.02; they can't use 4.0.

Good luck to everyone and hopefully some other people can post their test
results for us to compare.

Michael M

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Subject: Re: gpl force feedback
Date: 31 January 2001 15:05

GRAND PRIX LEGENDS AND FORCE FEEDBACK:  A PRIMER IN CORE.INI SETTINGS

I believe GPL core.ini FF settings are extremely specific to your wheel,
your machine, and even your car setups and driving style.  However, I also
believe that there is a logical approach you can to take to individualizing
your settings.  With a proper understanding of what these settings do you
can produce realistically subtle tactile feedback that will enhance your
driving ability.  To that end, let's take a look at each of the FF core.ini
settings, shed some light on what they do, and discuss some practical
approaches to setting them in a way that works for you and your setup.

LATENCY:
This is essentially how far into the future (in seconds) the GPL software
predicts what forces will be needed and sends them to your wheel, thereby
overcoming latency.  I determined the latency setting by driving over curbs
repeatedly and adjusting the value until all four wheels produced individual
FF effects in sync with what I was seeing from an outside view of the car.

MAX STEERING TORQUE:
This is an interesting one.  This is not actually the maximum torque your
wheel will produce, but is instead the *THRESHOLD* at which your wheel
produces it's maximum force.  Let's just pick some numbers out of the air to
illustrate the point.  Let's say the GPL software models the torque of
shifting at high revs at 50N, fish-tailing through a corner at 200N, and a
complete wipe out at 300N.  If you were to set your max steering torque
threshold at
"50"  all of these effects would be equally powerful as all would produce
the maximum amount of torque possible.  So if you set this threshold value
too low the car is virtually undrivable and there is little distinction
between the various forces.  If you set this threshold value too high (say
2000), you'll lose all steering torque altogether as no steering torque
force will ever reach the threshold necessary to trigger maximum effect.  In
this example, setting the value to 300 would allow you to feel a marked
gradation between these 3 very different effects.

So how do you set this for your system?  First set damping in both the
windows controller panel and the GPL core.ini to 0.  We don't want to mess
with damping right now.  From a dead stop turn your wheel to full left or
right lock, take your hands off the wheel, and then gradually accelerate.
If the front wheels (and steering wheel) do not center under forward
momentum and your car continues in a perpetual circle, then the threshold
value is too high.  If instead, the wheel suddenly snaps to center and or
see-saws ***ly, then you have the threshold set too low.  If the forward
momentum of the car very gradually brings the front wheels (and the steering
wheel) into forward alignment, as you would expect in a real world car with
manual steering, then you've got the threshold value just about right.
Adjusting the threshold to a level that just barely produces a centering
effect at low speeds will result in a very drivable car and nice subtle
tactile inputs that will cue you as to the status of your vehicle.  Now here
is the part that really throws people:  the Max Steering Torque threshold
*ONLY* affects *STEERING TORQUE FORCE* or the forces related to engine
torque, torque caused by maneuvering through corners, wheel centering
torque, etc.  It does *NOT* affect any of the forces related to crashing
into guardrails or driving on grass.  For some odd reason, known only to
Papyrus, these latter type of effects are only affected by the damping
setting.

DAMPING:
This, contrary to some reports, does in fact do what it says.  It causes
increased "friction" or "viscosity" in the movement of the wheel and
therefore also tends to lessen some FF spikes.  But here's where it gets a
bit strange.  You'll find that as you increase the damping value, and the
friction on the wheel, you also increase the forces felt when driving on
grass or slamming into rails.  I recommend adjusting this value just high
enough to barely feel a subtle difference between pavement and grass when
one single wheel drops off the road.  Using this as a guide, you'll be able
to tell with your eyes closed if all four wheels are on the road.  Hitting
curbs will feel realistic, guard rails will give you a jolt (but usually
allow you to correct), and the wheel will not be so tight that you begin to
lose torque effects.

The key to good driving and useful tactile information is subtlety in each
of these FF settings.  Remember, GPL is not an arcade game!

Finally, in the Windows controller panel, I personally have Force Effects
set at 100% and dampening effects to 0% (you've already adjusted dampening
in the GPL core.ini so adding more damping in the controller panel will just
result in reduced less subtle effects).  I like to use full linear steering
in GPL with a steering ratio of 15:1.   These latter two settings are purely
a matter of taste, but you should keep in mind that they may effect the way
you feel the forces at work in your wheel or at least the way your car
responds as torque is placed on the wheel.  Once you find a car setup that
suits your driving style you may want to tweak the core.ini FF settings to
match your setup.

Hope this helps.

--
Chris "Ambulater" Lee
"Don't Bother Running.........You'll Just Die Tired."
Reviews at www.sim-arena.com