rec.autos.simulators

Obviously you are correct that simulating real tracks down to the kind
of detail provided in the original game would not be possible for us
non-surveyors.  However I do think that the mechanism I outlined would
allow us to either modify tracks to a greater or lesser extent, or -
if copyright restrictions are stringent, create completely new
layouts.  For me, and many others, this would add a whole new
dimension to the game, even if the scenery is not that imaginative or
the track doesn't physically exist.  The terrain editor (the most
tricky part as I see it) could be easily left out, but still allow an
infinite variety of possible layouts.  The point of racing simulators
for me is the challenge of working out how to get around a given
track - defined by the white lines, curbing, and a bit of grass
sometimes :) - in the quickest time, with the most physically realistic
simulation of car behaviour possible.  Allowing track layout design would
limitlessly extend this challenge.

And if Papyrus or Microprose are worried that they won't be able to sell
any more games after this, here are a few suggestions:

1) Provide extra tracks with the sort of excellent attention to detail
that we would not be able to achieve - either non-current ones, or
those that get newly added to the series as time progresses.  Note
that the original game should contain a complete championship-worth,
or it's not a full sim.

2) Look at the list of suggestions for improvements in Dave Gymer's home
page.  That's enough for several new games, each of which would render
the previous one obsolete.

3) Use basically the same type of game engine, with modifications for
a different driving experience, such as the cars of the turbo, ground
effect or pre-wing eras.  In fact Microprose are supposed to be doing
exactly this, by launching a motorbike racing sim. using the WC2
engine.

Peter

(just pacing about, waiting for WC2 and IndyCar II)

 However, Papyrus (for good or bad) designs and builds SIMS.  Those
enthusist amongst us prefer to keep them that way.

You say "stop telling the rest of us what to do" but then you act like
an idiot by doing the exact thing to us.  Grow up boy.....

Don't blame me because your mama couldn't spell !

By now everyone should understand that Byron/Bryon/whatever is a self
proclaimed designer of train SIMS that no one has ever seen.  However,
this has not prevented him from telling Papyrus and the world how to
run their business.

Well then, tell us how you handled this problem with your ultra
successfull train SIM.........

Me thinks the only thing that could engulf Byron/Bryon/whatever
totally is an Amiga version of Doom running on ICR tracks he dreams
up.........between the "wet" ones.

Certainly NOT for a mental giant like B/B/whatever....

bryon

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
What's so wrong with a tax cut anyway.
Bryon S. Lape
Hodges Library in the department formerly known as "Automation"
Proud owner of two songs banned from MTV.
Suffering from political correctness deficiency syndrome.

It's a good thing you don't race in real life.  You'd get REEEEEAL
bored going around the same 15 tracks all season, wouldn't you?

In the same vein as your posting, let me just say, if you want to sit
around throwing out non-constructive criticisms (note the spelling),
go ahead.  But stop expecting us to take you at all seriously.

IWCC Director of Competition
URL: http://www.webcom.com/~zyllyx/welcome.html

Ralf

  ____   __    ___    __   ____   __

 _\ \  /(__)\ |  (  /(__)\  )(  /(__)\  http://www.webcom.com/~sabata/

        First it is Bryon, moron.  And from the mail I have been getting,
YOU are not alot, just a vocal few.

        They do not.  IndyCar racing is a hybrid.  It is not a full
'game' nor is it a full 'sim'.  The former usually get boring quickly and
the later cannot be built with only one PC.  For it to be a 'sim' it must
engulf the user totally.  This just is not possible with a PC with a
sound card.

        Boy?  Get real.  You need to grow up.  I have not, nor will not,
tell anyone on here what to do, eventhough I might have just cause.  But
for Ralf and his ilk to tell me to find some other game to play is
idiotic and typical of the old guard of the net.
        Now as I learn more of how Papyrus may have designed ICR,
creators/editors will be increasingly harder to create, but by no means
impossible nor unlikely.  If this is not, or cannot be, changed, I
believe that ICR will not live much longer.  It is ashame since it is a
great game/sim.

bsl

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-
If I were but what I was, I would not be anything but what I were.
Bryon S. Lape
Hodges Library in the department formerly known as "Automation"
Proud owner of two songs banned from MTV.
Suffering from political correctness deficiency syndrome.

send mail to me indicating your preferences:

Byron L is

(check any that apply)

( ) somebody whose net access should be reconsidered by utk.edu
( ) an undergrad with no clue but a net accout
( ) looking for attention in the wrong crowd
( ) a rejected hotshot sim driver that faces sim series
    director boycott (because he's so damn good!)
( ) a rejected rookie sim driver that faces sim series
    director boycott (because he's so annoying!)    
( ) too stupid to distinguish between any of the existing
    online racing series
( ) expert in copyright laws regarding use of trademarks
    on pixelpainted virtual race cars
( ) a total retard
( ) a misunderstood genius
( ) racing sim's messiah, who will bring us the mother of all
    driving sims - not just some hybrid ***like ICR
( ) somebody who can't spell
( ) a major pain in the derriere wasting  our bandwidth and
    time
( ) late for work at BurgerWorld (hmmm, curly fries...)
( ) busy hacking code on his ICR track editor and engine
    add-on module (with proper sound and subwoofer support)
( ) going to be pissed at me forever ;-)

Again - mail to me and totals will be posted here next week.

And yet again, we see someone getting flamed who claims to have email
support. Support from unknowns, who have not supported him here. (Where
it counts).

Is this the WEBSTER's definition of a 'sim'? Perhaps you are right though.
Why not take Ralf's advice & create your own kick ass sim? Perhaps you
could re-create the Senna crash for us? Of course it must "engulf the user
totaly" though.

Just cause? WTF?? No doubt, this is more of your legal brilliance.

Oh sure... Might as well try to get this in. Last week we are boycotting
PAPYRUS. Now... <smooch> <smooch> (one for each cheek).

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Anyhow, count me as one of the vocal few who don't care what Bryon does.  If
he wants to rant and rave for a track designer, he can go ahead and do so
(within the "laws of Internet").

I love ICR/NASCAR as a sim.  However, I don't see how making a track
designer available to the public will ruin my enthusiasm for its realism.  
In fact, there's so many people dedicated to ICR/NASCAR in some
extracurricular way, like online racing series, that there could possibly be
some track designing folks that'll try their damnest to create incredibly
realistic tracks (like the F1 tracks, the old Nurburgring <sp>, Le Mans,
etc).

Heck, if you don't want to try other peoples' track creations, DON'T RACE
'EM!

I think that as long as Papyrus' racing sims will keep drawing enough
customers to thrive without releasing additional addons (besides Track
Packs), there'll be no need to release stuff like track designers.  However,
if Papyrus or other racing sim companies start to lag behind its
competitors, track-designers-to-be may be in luck as they become desperate
in attracting customers!  

OBTW, I don't have the dedication to be a track designer; heck, I sometimes
have a hard enough time just trying to race!  But, I didn't think that Bryon
was being fairly treated just because of his stance on track design.

--
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|   G. Warren Abao    | Owner/GM/Head Coach |     Owner/GM/Head Coach     |

+---------------------+Black and Blue League|    W. A. Football League    |
                      +---------------------+-----------------------------+
                      |  JAX #1 in defense  |WAFL Gipp Division           |
                      |    last season!!    |TEAM             W  L  PF  PA|
                      +---------------------+Southern Calif  14  0 678  88|
                                            |MANILA           5  9 347 402|
                                            |Shy Moon         5  9 258 306|
                                            |Yosemite         5  9 381 393|
                                            |Brooklyn Eagles  0 14  90 700|
                                            +-----------------------------+

Pretty good!

Looks like it could be a Senna-fan poll as well  ;)

eryc  

: Well then, tell us how you handled this problem with your ultra
: successfull train SIM.........

: >Is this the WEBSTER's definition of a 'sim'? P

Methinks what has our pal Myron [or whatever] confused is the difference
betwixt a simulation and an emulation.  Sims are not perfect lest they be
ems, and not even your computer can perform enough flops to emulate so
much as a flipping coin let alone a choo-choo... yes, Rosencrantz and
Gildenstern are indeed dead.  Won't waste more BW with this.

eryc