rec.autos.simulators

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

m.seer

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by m.seer » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Read the whole post in context Todd!

Or better still, howabout I add, taking without the consent of the owner?

MS

MS



> > > Warez helps people try software prior to purchase - some buy it who
> > > wouldn't otherwise, others don't buy it who perhaps would..

> > Bullshit.

> > Definition of theft -
> > To procure goods or property  with intent to permanently deprive the
legal
> > owner.

> Based on your definition then it is not theft to try warez before the game
> is out and then buy the game when it is released. Because if this is done
it
> in no way permanently deprives the legal owner.

> LOL

> > Warez is simple theft, or in the hands of somebody who has downloaded it
> > from a site, reciept of stolen goods. Sure, people can try warez
products
> to
> > see if they would like the product or not. In the same manner, I could
go
> > and steal a chocolate bar from the local shop before I decide whether I
> like
> > the taste or not and whether I will buy more of the same. No matter what
> > play on words people like to go with, once one's hands are soiled with
the
> > "swag", curiosity is no justification for committing the initial act of
> > theft.

> > LOL.

> > Sorry M'lud, I ripped off this software because I wanted to know if it
was
> > any good or not before I bought it.

> > People have of late, taken great pleasure in lambasting British football
> > hooligans and branding all British football supporters with the same
iron.
> > For every hooligan there are ten England fans who are decent hardworking
> and
> > genuine sporting fans. These people are branded as the scum of Europe
> > because they travel on the same planes, share the same hotels and stand
on
> > the same terraces as their lowlife counterparts.

> > In the same manner, all gamers (or all other software users come to
that)
> > are branded as potential thieves because of the warez supporting people
> > amongst them. This is why we see CD protection and other measures
> > implemented. For every 10 persons who download a warez game (to
evaluate)
> > and deletes it, rest assured that there will be at least 1 who will keep
> it
> > on their hard disk. (If people do not believe this they are plain
stupid).
> > Despite the claims of the so called innocent 9 that they are evaluating
a
> > product, what is really happening is that they are generating sufficient
> > traffic to justify the running of such sites. Warez sites in the main.
> keep
> > going by click-thru banner exchanges and other money making scams such
as
> > linking to premium *** sites. By evaluating software in this manner,
you
> > are all guilty to a small degree of ensuring that at least 10% of people
> > visiting warez sites appropriate software by illegal means, with the
> > intention of permanently depriving the authors of any revenue. Wake up
> guys.
> > You want  top programmers to perform miracles and then treat them with
> this
> > contempt?

> > > I don't think it applies to anyone here, and I don't think there's any
> > > new angle left with which to denounce,

> > How many angles to denounce theft does a decent citicen need before he
is
> > convinced? Just curious

> > MS

Joe6

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by Joe6 » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00


>I'm sure they would be more
>inclined to appreciate the positive features ...

Maybe so, but that makes the review less informative IMO.

Joe McGinn
_____________________
Radical Entertainment

Simon Brow

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by Simon Brow » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I have sympathy when a *real* company goes under like Looking Glass, someone
who genuinely innovates, but as for the majority of the industry, they treat
gamers with utter contempt.  I know exactly which companies I respect, and I
always buy their games.  I paid 65 (nearly $100) for System Shock 2 so I
had could have it 6 weeks before the UK release.  I bought Thief, I bought
Thief 2.  I also bought everything Papyrus have ever released.  On Friday I
will buy GP3.
As for people like EA, they deserve no respect.  Last year EA told Origin
that if Ultima 9 wasn't released by the fall it would be scrapped, even
though Origin still had THREE MONTHS work left to do on it.  The game hadn't
even reached beta testing, but EA insisted it was released.  Consequently it
was horribly slow and barely worked, and when it did work it crashed all the
time.
This year EA did more or less the same thing with Image Space Incorporated
and F1 2000, another un-finished product with an un-optimized engine,
mistakes in the track layouts and unfinished AI code.  EA forced a release
to hit the start of the F1 season.
Two games with potential ruined.
I have no sympathy for EA when their software gets pirated.  They treat
gamers with no respect and they deserve none in return.  They sooner they
are out of business the better.

pardon the rant :)

Ronald Stoeh

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by Ronald Stoeh » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00


> In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so amazed
> at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days.
snip

> I, for one, have nothing but contempt for the morals and behaviour of some
> who have posted here over the last week. I feel as if I've trodden in
> something rather ***.

Well said! Not to mention the security with which some of those 10 year
olds
are dissing the sim already...

--
l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Bruce Kennewel

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by Bruce Kennewel » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Sorry.....not even close.
I HAVE used WinZip...and other programs....beyond their time-allowed period.
But I also own registered copies of those programs.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------



> >  may he who has never used winzip past its 30 day shareware limit cast
the
> > first stone.

> Hehehe.  Check and mate!

> --
> Chuck Kandler

> A man is no less a Slave just because he is
> allowed to choose a new Master every four years.

> Registered Linux User #180746
> http://counter.li.org

Simon Brow

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by Simon Brow » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

So for everyone here who genuinely will be buying GP3, downloading the warez
version cannot be described as theft.  Thanks for clearing that up.
Colin Harri

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by Colin Harri » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Simon, interesting stuff. How did you find that information about EA's
rushed product out?

--

Colin Harris
ColinHarris in N3/NL and VROC

Bomber Racing: http://fullspeed.to/Bomber
ICQ 25485061

Richard G Cleg

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by Richard G Cleg » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

: In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so amazed
: at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days.

  Me too - this pathetic moralising makes me feel slightly ill.

--
Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
    Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
      Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
     UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

Simon Brow

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by Simon Brow » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

It was on a *** news site, www.voodooextreme.com in the week or so after
the game launched last year.  Apparently a senior programmer from Origin
contacted them.  I know you will probably say this isn't proof, but either
way, the game was put out in an unfinished condition.  It was hopelessly
slow in all cases, and wouldn't even start in D3D, which meant anyone with
an nVidia card was stumped.  Also countless quest were impossible to finish,
your character sunk through the floor in numerous places, or got stuck in
scenery.
Origin had to send a new copy of the install CD to everyone who had bought
it when a few months later they finally had the game finished.
Bruce Kennewel

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by Bruce Kennewel » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Well....don't hold it in. Vomit!
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------




> : In all the years that I have been posting to RAS I have never been so
amazed
> : at the behaviour of some as I have been over the past several days.

>   Me too - this pathetic moralising makes me feel slightly ill.

> --
> Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
>     Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
>       Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
>      UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

Colin Harri

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by Colin Harri » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

No, no, Simon, I wasn't doubting a word you said (that's been the problem in
r.a.s. recently, hasn't it - everyone's so defensive!!!!) I was just
interested. It explains a lot of things about F1 2k for sure.

--

Colin Harris
ColinHarris in N3/NL and VROC

Bomber Racing: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
ICQ 25485061


John Wallac

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by John Wallac » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00



So by that definition warez is not theft, provided there is the intent
to purchase the software at a later date as is the case we are
discussing here.

Unlike warez it's kind of difficult to go and pay for that chocolate
later. Not a valid comparison.

Do you consider it acceptable for a software company to, for example,
minimally update an old game, release no demo, then bribe/threaten the
only review sources into pouring praise on it with a view to getting
30 out of me? I haven't downloaded GP3 and won't waste the download
time, but if I read the magazines I'd say it was a must buy, but
listening to the people here it's far from as clear. I think we view
warez from a different angle in that regard. I see it as a last
resport preview when no other means is available to minimise the risk
of shelling out for crap, you see it as an attempt to avoid paying.

Rubbish. I know of no-one who holds this opinion.

CD protection has nothing to do with that, as is blatantly obvious.
You can't "download" a physical CD after all. It exists to stop people
buying the game, installing it, and loaning the CD to all their mates.
Oh no! Piracy that's not related to warez, surely that cannot be.

See above, if people believe that they ARE plain stupid.

You seem to know an awful lot about this. Frankly warez has existed
long, long before such schemes existed - warez just exists as a
challenge among groups of people - who can get the software first, who
cracks it first and who distributes it first. It has never been much
to do with money, only kudos.

No, I want top programers to be rewarded and people turning out crud
to be outed.

Given the popularity that you outline above, obviously more than has
been provided. I don't advocate warez, nor do I bother downloading
them, but I am open-minded enough to see some benefits, not only the
disadvantages.

Cheers!
John

John Wallac

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by John Wallac » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 18:16:56 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"


>Now, if you want to take it further, I can make arrangements to meet you in
>my solicitors office if you so wish.

If you pay for my ticket then I'll be there - my sister lives in
Canberra, and a holiday would be nice!

Cheers!
John

m.seer

GP3: Like pigs at a feeding trough.

by m.seer » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Another poster who can't read past the first sentance!

MS


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