rec.autos.simulators

If I just read about all the trouble many people were having with CPR, and
the many disappointing posts, I probably would have deferred buying CPR
until the general tone of experiences here were a bit more positive.

It was largely because of Deans' participation that I bought the full
version of the game. Even though I was very disappointed with the demo, and
also with the full version for that matter, I did take reassurance from
Deans that MS would be not be abandoning  this project after the first
release. I bought it not because I was happy with the way it was but in
good faith that MS will improve it over time. How far MS will improve it I
suppose only time will tell but my impressions from Dean were such that I'm
willing to take the chance on it and give them the benefit of the doubt.

Yes it certainly was a big disappointment. Especially after the very high
expectations. Many people obviously feel the same. It seems that I'm one of
those who happen to have a system on which the game is simply hopeless to
drive. Good luck to all those who haven't found this to be the case but
there does seem to be lots of folks who unfortunately have a more negative
experience with the game.

I thought, perhaps incorrectly, that MS were at least willing if not even
openly inviting the ras people to make critical assessments of this
product. That's exactly what many people did. I didn't think the tone was
too abusive. Harsh at times perhaps, short to the point, and using street
vernacular rather than purely technical terms. But I thought the general
tone was more or less acceptable. I've been visiting newsgroups here and
forums on Compuserve before that for what amounts to a few years now. Maybe
I'm just used to the hard nosed way people tend to express themselves in
this kind of media. ( In Australia of course if someone calls you an old
bastard they may if fact be expressing a slang form of acceptance - so
perhaps I have just the right kind of social conditioning for newsgroups).

Deans' presence seemed to have the desired effect on me at least. To feel
good enough about the future prospects of the program to buy it on an 'as
is' basis while looking forward to the inevitable patches. Given that he
was being successful in his presence here its ironic that he left. A pity
too of course. ( He might have just said that he was taking a months break
to finish the updates. Too late now I suppose ).

You've just got to get used to the short way in which folks often express
themselves in this kind of median IMO. Its my experience that even those
people who may give a very short harsh view on something one day can give a
very thoughtful perceptive view on something else another day. I don't have
any problem with this. That's just the way the median seems to be and its
been that way for years.

FWIW

Cheers

Phillip McNelley

I've got to 'second' what Phillip wrote. I KNOW others who bought the
sim (CPR) even after being disappointed with the demo precisely because
of Dean's continual input on this NG and the apparent showing that the
product was in a state of improvement with the consumer's input and
concerns being addressed.

If a 'poster' is offensive and not constructive there is a 'delete' key
available. If a 'poster' is continually abusive, isn't that what
'kill-files' are for? I wish Dean could've been a bit more
'thick-skinned' in that regard.

I stayed silent on CPR's short-comings that were beaten to death in this
NG because I am willing to wait on the patch. I did have a couple of
comments about issues that weren't mentioned )atleast I didn't see them
mentioned). I wonder about people who don't reguarily follow this NG,
who buy the sim and after a few days frustration with it, come here
seeking answers. They don't intend to beat a dead horse but rather just
want an answer to their problems. I'm sure seeing a 'reply' from Dean
and the CPR Design Team was refreshing and seeing the MANY replies from
Dean was actually reassuring.

I, like many others, had high expectations for CPR. It has not met those
expectations (yet....hopefully it will). There are aspects I like but
over-all the product needs work. The patch is supposed to address a lot
of these issues. Being one of the Gold users, I wish MS CPR would've
used that forum more as a true BETA test. I think a lot of these issues
arise from the fact that the program could've been improved (hence the
'quickly' announced patch) before the program hit the shelves (IMHO).

It would be nice to know that when the patch does arrive, followed by
the flames, critiques, questions, and praises, that Dean's support would
be here to (hopefully) show MS' continued support and committment to the
product.

Oh well...
Alan
http://www.kiva.net/~akh/simshop.html

<SNIP>

<SNIP>

<SNIP>

Excellent and thought-provoking post, Phillip. BTW, where I come from
(the wilds of upstate New York), if they call you an "old bastard,"
they're probably just being genealogically and chronologically correct!

Bart Brown

Bart.. what part of upstate NY ???

Im originally from Elmira, NY.. the true Nowhere capital of NY state =)

Scott B. Husted
http://home.ptd.net/~sbhusted

Alan --

Another excellent post! I think this notion that there's some cadre of
"Ninja Flamers" who haunt newgroups with the sole intention of jumping
down someone's throat is just mindlessly simplistic. If I plunked down
my hard-earned spondulix for a racing sim, and I couldn't get it to
work, this is where I'd head -- and I'd be looking for answers, and most
likely exceptionally frustrated.

If a software company expects to maintain a presence here, they can
hardly be unaware of the general temperament in newsgroups like this --
whether it's good or bad is irrelevant: it just *is*. My initial
impression of Mr. Lester was of a junior functionary with an avocational
interest in racing sims. It was a shock to me to discover he was the GM
of Simulations for MS -- maybe I'm old fashioned, but in my experience
of the corporate world, anyone in such a prominent position is generally
held to a MUCH higher standard of behavior than a "civilian" or
"enlistee". Whether *THAT's* right or wrong is also irrelevant, it's
just the way it is. It's not like some irate customer is going to lunge
through the monitor and rip his throat out -- it's just words.

I'll be the first to admit my bias regarding Microsoft products, but I
certainly have always respected the company as a corporate entity of the
highest professional (business) standards. Mr. Lester's petulant
departure most certainly does NOT reflect professional standards.

Thanks again for your excellent post.

Bart Brown

Joe

Although I have not been around in this newsgroup long enough to know Dean,
I came across his name in other CPR websites.  I have to say that MS should
have informed consumers about the system requirement in more details.  I
love the game.  It runs very well.  Without a good 3D card, the game is
horrible.  More RAM the better.  Apparently, I do not think that the
recommended 32 RAM is sufficient enough.

Anyone has a clue about when the latest patch becomes available?

--
Victor Chan

<snip>
% I, like many others, had high expectations for CPR. It has not met those
% expectations (yet....hopefully it will). There are aspects I like but
% over-all the product needs work. The patch is supposed to address a lot
% of these issues. Being one of the Gold users, I wish MS CPR would've
% used that forum more as a true BETA test. I think a lot of these issues
% arise from the fact that the program could've been improved (hence the
% 'quickly' announced patch) before the program hit the shelves (IMHO).
<snip>

That's a funny thing.  Now before we start another bashing thread, this
is not a flame or an attack, it's just my observation (and it could be
tainted by S/N), okay???  I could have sworn that Dean and the
other "official" posters were attempting to make it sound like the
problems that were reported with the demo and the "Gold" edition would
be fixed for the release.  While I knew what was on the Gold was what
would be released, I felt that alot of people were disappointed by the
condition of the retail version.  While there was alot of support and
"feeback taking" by Dean et al, there certainly was a good helping of
spin control.  I for one would have liked to have seen some apology or
at least a "recognition" that the program was released even though they
were aware of the major short-comings.  Many of the things being fixed
in The Patch, were well known from the alpha and beta test reports.  I
personally was insulted by the glossing over that certain problems
received.  I know that many of you think that Dean was abused by some
of the crazed posters in r.a.s.  Well, I also think we the sim-buying
public were abused by the pre-release of the product.

While I have no way of knowing who was ultimately responsible for the
program being released in the condition that it was, I would have been
personally embarassed had it been my work that was pushed out the door
in that state.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

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