rec.autos.simulators

by **Joel A. Willstei** » Sat, 13 Jul 2002 23:53:51

Dan,

Just who are these people? Why haven't they posted their reviews? And
if it's a year old Beta, then it's of WSC. Stop dreaming. Someone a year or
so ago posted that they drove an early demo of WSC and raved over it. When
questioned, it was anything but basic. The steering didn't work. The damage
model didn't work, nor did hardly anything else. What they did was drive the
car in a straight line. What was great was the graphics of the car and the
track.

Again. You guys need a reality check. At this point the West brothers
need to prove their case with concrete proof. Not more meaningless promises.
And just what does actually talking to the Wests have anything to do with
this? Nothing. I've read all the promises. I've read all the interviews, I
read all the posts. And none of it proves anything.

Joel Willstein

--

"If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner
till the time you brake for the next turn
, then you have enough horsepower."
Mark Donohue

> There are a few ppl that have driven a beta version ... by all acounts its
> amazing ... and that was a yr old beta. I have total faith in the west
> brothers having talked to them. It has taken a very long time to come out
> but i always knew what they released in the end would be exactly what im
> looking for.
> dan

> > What looks stunning? All we have to go on is some two-year-old screen
> > shots, and a newly designed web page.

> > Sure, it SOUNDS good, but I'll reserve judgement for the product release
> > (if there is indeed one this this time - and I honestly hope there is).

> > > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up.
> This
> > > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P
> > > dan

> > > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I)
> > > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to
> > > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in
> > > > this newsgroup.

> > > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes
> > > > me a bit worried though...

> > > > _
> > > > Mats Lofkvist

> > > > PS it is at http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > --
> > =========================================================
> > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > RASCAR Roster
> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> > =========================================================

by **Dan Leac** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:05:09

Ive spoken to the wests quite a bit on vroc .. the guys i know that have
tested it are phil flack (guru), martijn taffer, and marc mercer .. and i
trust the opinion of them a lot
dan

> Dan,

> Just who are these people? Why haven't they posted their reviews?
And
> if it's a year old Beta, then it's of WSC. Stop dreaming. Someone a year
or
> so ago posted that they drove an early demo of WSC and raved over it. When
> questioned, it was anything but basic. The steering didn't work. The
damage
> model didn't work, nor did hardly anything else. What they did was drive
the
> car in a straight line. What was great was the graphics of the car and
the
> track.

> Again. You guys need a reality check. At this point the West brothers
> need to prove their case with concrete proof. Not more meaningless
promises.
> And just what does actually talking to the Wests have anything to do with
> this? Nothing. I've read all the promises. I've read all the interviews,
I
> read all the posts. And none of it proves anything.

> Joel Willstein

> --

> "If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a
corner
> till the time you brake for the next turn
> , then you have enough horsepower."
> Mark Donohue

> > There are a few ppl that have driven a beta version ... by all acounts
its
> > amazing ... and that was a yr old beta. I have total faith in the west
> > brothers having talked to them. It has taken a very long time to come
out
> > but i always knew what they released in the end would be exactly what im
> > looking for.
> > dan

> > > What looks stunning? All we have to go on is some two-year-old screen
> > > shots, and a newly designed web page.

> > > Sure, it SOUNDS good, but I'll reserve judgement for the product
release
> > > (if there is indeed one this this time - and I honestly hope there
is).

> > > > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut
up.
> > This
> > > > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P
> > > > dan

> > > > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I)
> > > > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to
> > > > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in
> > > > > this newsgroup.

> > > > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes
> > > > > me a bit worried though...

> > > > > _
> > > > > Mats Lofkvist

> > > > > PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com

> > > --
> > > =========================================================
> > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
> > > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
> > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
> > > RASCAR Roster
> > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
> > > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john
> > > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
> > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

> > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> > > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> > > =========================================================

by **Dan Leac** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:08:32

IIRC gpl was worked on as a concept for 3-4 yrs before reales

> Dan,

> Maybe it's time for guys like you have a reality check. Anyone can
> claim anything they want to on a website. Just exactly what has the West
> brothers ever produced or finished? NOTHING. We've had 2+ years of
promises,
> countless pics that mean absolutely nothing. I haven't seen one post of
> anyone who actually drove a fully workable demo of WSC. You do remember
the
> demo that the West promised us after E3 of 2001 don't you?

> Grand Prix Legends took 2 years from start to finish with a full
team
> of highly paid professionals working a min of 8 hours per day, 5 days per
> week. Now just how is 2 brothers named West going to do that and get it
done
> by end of the year working part time on this project? They do have jobs
> don't they?

> I'm still waiting to hear their version of what really transpired
> with Empire. You don't really believe the***order do you?

> Joel Willstein

> --

> "If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a
corner
> till the time you brake for the next turn
> , then you have enough horsepower."
> Mark Donohue

> > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up.
This
> > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P
> > dan

> > > Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I)
> > > have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to
> > > the hard core niche product many have asked for in
> > > this newsgroup.

> > > The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes
> > > me a bit worried though...

> > > _
> > > Mats Lofkvist

> > > PS it is at http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Joel A. Willstei** » Sat, 13 Jul 2002 23:59:18

Jon,

Exactly what proof are you refering to? A picture and a punch of
promises of what the sim will eventually do or be? You would be better
served understanding the definition of the word proof: The evidence of the
truth or correctness of something. This is from Websters Practical
Dictionary page 647.
Now where is your proof?

Joel

--

"If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner
till the time you brake for the next turn
, then you have enough horsepower."
Mark Donohue

> > Maybe its time for some of the 'vapour ware' guys to finally shut up.
This
> > looks absolutly stunning. :) :P
> > dan

> I agree. If this isn't proof positive, I don't know what is...

> WEST RACING LEGENDS ROCKS!!!!!!!!

by **Dildo Buggin** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:20:47

Gee. That's encouraging, isn't it? They couldn't even get a sim out using
OTHER people's money. What are the odds they can actually produce this one?

I'll believe it exists when a copy is installed on my computer. No sooner.

by **Ruud van Ga** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 01:06:12

On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:46:04 -0400, "Joel A. Willstein"

>Dan,

...
> Grand Prix Legends took 2 years from start to finish with a full team
>of highly paid professionals working a min of 8 hours per day, 5 days per
>week. Now just how is 2 brothers named West going to do that and get it done
>by end of the year working part time on this project? They do have jobs
>don't they?

AFAIK, they're on it fulltime. First paid by Empire, now by
themselves.

Difference of opinion on what kind of carsim it should become. Read
the website and you'll see that's it's even quite a gamble; it's
targeted at high-end users, or simfans. Not exactly what a regular
publisher would aim for. But great for most of the visitors of this
newsgroup.
The idea of just bringing it out only online was born quite soon after
the Wests & Empire split. Almost a year ago I'd say.

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Pencil art : http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **jon** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 01:07:43

Joel , I am gonna level with you. I think you are the voice of reason in
this whole wsc/wrl debacle. You, my friend, have a gift. You have the
ability to look beyond the hype and promises, and say that we have been
promised much but given nothing in a manner that is straighforward and to
the point, and for that I envy you.

Me on the other hand, well I just read some of these posts, think of
those poor souls out there looking forward to wrl, maybe setting themselves
up for nothing more than another disapointment, and I start to giggle.
Then I go to the wrl website and see the close-up photos of the little
leather cases for the disc, notice there is little if anything showing what
the sim supposedly looks like or if it even exists, and I start to laugh.
After that I come back here and read some more, and the very thought
that this might be the practical joke of the century (at least for r.a.s) is
too much for my easily amused self to handle. Fighting off gales of
laughter, I compose a sarcastic message all in the name of good clean fun,
and sometimes it is all I can do to click file>send message before I
collapse, hysterical to the point of being rendered immobile.

I can appreciate the fact that you are vigilantly trying to warn the
masses that wrl may be nothing more than a cruel hoax, and I understand that
it is in this spirit that you replied to my post. Furthermore I am grateful
for what you are trying to do for mankind, but be forewarned -- they will
only hate you for it. Sometimes it is easier just to let them go and laugh
at them.

by **Bejeezu** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 01:18:42

Is this the biggest u-turn in ras history ? I think so.

by **Tony Rickar** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 02:01:41

> Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I)
> have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to
> the hard core niche product many have asked for in
> this newsgroup.

I agree totally. I think this is the only way we would get such a
product for our niche group. I have been a fan of the expansion pack
approach since Indycar1.

I'd rather spend loads on adding to a quality sim than wasting money on
potential ones to fulfill my desire for something new. Add up the now
unused titles on your shelves or attic in that search for the next
milestone sim.

I assume this takes the code from WSC and wraps it in the new concept.

No doubt many will be sceptical.

Me - I'll remain optimistic as this is the only likely option for non
Nascar fans to get a product worthy of a sequel to GPL.

Cheers

Tony

by **Jan Verschuere** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 02:10:29

Depends... if you have free reign to upgrade your equipment any time you see
fit, the MSFF will do fine. If this is not the case I'm afraid WRL will at
least require a MOMO. And a GF4.

Jan. ;-)
=---

by **jon** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 02:16:22

Looks like I may have to go with the vinyl case with my copy of wrl instead
of the fancy leather one.

by **David Coo** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 02:22:07

If they do this right, they could market it to professional race teams in
F1, Sports Cars, Nascar or whatever. Custom tracks and cars modeled after
the real thing specifically for the team and driver in question could pull
in alot of cash. They should consider a professional hardware setup as well
to make it a turn-key solution for interested race teams.

Just my 2 cents...

- David Cook

by **Jan Verschuere** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 02:22:54

Not even close, IMO.

Jan.
=---

by **Rob Adam** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 02:32:57

The biggest u-turn in ras history was when DGF started racing Nascar ;)

by **Larr** » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 03:04:51

Well, it's a HELL of a blueprint. Gotta give them that!

-Larry

> Looks like the concept is everything we (well, at least I)
> have wished for. It's almost scary how close it is to
> the hard core niche product many have asked for in
> this newsgroup.

> The phrase 'This is an entirely new project' makes
> me a bit worried though...

> _
> Mats Lofkvist

> PS it is at http://www.west-racing.com

rec.autos.simulators

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