rec.autos.simulators

by **Tim Vanhe** » Mon, 15 May 2000 04:00:00

I noticed that in every replay of almost every sim the track camera always
keeps focussing directly on the middle of the car. Now matter how the car
shakes or crashes, the camera will almost keep up. It's like the car is
pinned to the middle of the screen This doesn't give a good impression of
speed. When you hit a tree in gpl at 200 mph the camera will always keep the
car in the center of the screen. I noticed WSC has this too.
In real life there is always a time to react as a cameraman or as a
spectator so you won't be able to follow the car all the time.
Can't this be solved or haven't software companies thought of that yet?

by **Dave Henri** » Mon, 15 May 2000 04:00:00

That would sound like a feature that 3dfx's tbuffer and motion blur
could produce.
dave henrie

> I noticed that in every replay of almost every sim the track camera always
> keeps focussing directly on the middle of the car. Now matter how the car
> shakes or crashes, the camera will almost keep up. It's like the car is
> pinned to the middle of the screen This doesn't give a good impression of
> speed. When you hit a tree in gpl at 200 mph the camera will always keep the
> car in the center of the screen. I noticed WSC has this too.
> In real life there is always a time to react as a cameraman or as a
> spectator so you won't be able to follow the car all the time.
> Can't this be solved or haven't software companies thought of that yet?

by **Scott Boha** » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00

That would be an easy effect to achieve, simply have a maximum acceleration
for the camera, it would then pan past the car if it stopped abruptly, and
return nicely to the car. I agree, would make it more realistic.

by **Andrew Hodgso** » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00

As an extension of this you could have a typical TV GP coverage where the
producer switches to a totally different car, unrelated to the action. Then
they pick it up again after the smash/brilliant overtaking move/pit stop
action and go "What's happened here?!" :)

Andrew

by **Simon Brow** » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00

This exact thing has been done in Superbike 2000. When the camera has to
pan fast to track a bike, it can't keep up. It's obviously programmed
deliberately to give the feel of the tv coverage.

by **David Butte** » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00

Been done - GP2's got a "director mode", which last time I watched a
race spent two laps concentrating on Johnny Herbert trailing around in
about 17th and completely ignored Hakkinen crashing into Alesi and
Schumacher taking the lead from Coulthard. Crammond thinks of
everything...

--
David.
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really."
(Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

by **Simon Brow** » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00

Despite being a 3dfx fan, and someone who is likely to buy a V5, I'd have to
admit that the T-buffer is unlikely to be widely supported. This is such a
shame. Motion-blur could do wonders for the visual realism of racing sims.
Anyone who has used a rendering package like 3D Studio MAX or Lightwave will
appreciate what I mean.
You can fly a space-ship past a camera at 50 fps (in MAX) and it can look
totally false, like a computer game. But add motion blur and suddenly it
looks almost real. Afterall the same effect occurs with our eyes, and with
real cameras. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to see GPL with
motion-blur, but the chances of that ever happening are zero. :(
Simon.

by **ymenar** » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00

NFS:PU and SBK2000 have somehow such a thing. I always found ridiculous the
Papyrus replay to have the car centered on the screen (when it's not a fixed
camera).

I personally thought of a way to counter this. Just create a virtual box of
about 20% of the total screen size in the dead-center (where normally the
camera fixes the car in Papyrus simulators) of the virtual replay system so
that the camera would act freely in random patterns (staccato effect shakes
and such). This way you could have a realistic human replay but it's still
not like reality, since we all know sometimes fixed camera simply can't keep
up with the speed of the car (they go too fast or too slow). The maximum
acceleration feature of the cameras in SBK and NFSPU solve this.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Thomas Heinema** » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00

I have read that Colin McRae 2.0 will have a similar replay engine as you
discribe.
"the car isnt always centred. Its like a real cameraman shooting"

Seams pretty good

I agree with you that you completly lose the felling of speed an realism,
when
the camera always keeps the car centered.

Thomas

by **Eldre** » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00

>Been done - GP2's got a "director mode", which last time I watched a
>race spent two laps concentrating on Johnny Herbert trailing around in
>about 17th and completely ignored Hakkinen crashing into Alesi and
>Schumacher taking the lead from Coulthard. Crammond thinks of
>everything...

Except Multiplayer... :)
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **S??bastien Tixie** » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00

In addition to this, when 2 drivers are fighting for a position, it will be
great than the cameraman dont aim one pilot but both !
When car's loose some parts, the cameran aim the parts flying in the air.

etc...

you know, like a real human cameraman :)

> > Can't this be solved or haven't software companies thought of that yet?

> NFS:PU and SBK2000 have somehow such a thing. I always found ridiculous the
> Papyrus replay to have the car centered on the screen (when it's not a fixed
> camera).

> I personally thought of a way to counter this. Just create a virtual box of
> about 20% of the total screen size in the dead-center (where normally the
> camera fixes the car in Papyrus simulators) of the virtual replay system so
> that the camera would act freely in random patterns (staccato effect shakes
> and such). This way you could have a realistic human replay but it's still
> not like reality, since we all know sometimes fixed camera simply can't keep
> up with the speed of the car (they go too fast or too slow). The maximum
> acceleration feature of the cameras in SBK and NFSPU solve this.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.WeRace.net
> -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Marc J. Nelso** » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00

The West Bros are trying to sort this out for WSC - a sort of "AI" for the
camera.

Cheers!
Marc

> I noticed that in every replay of almost every sim the track camera always
> keeps focussing directly on the middle of the car. Now matter how the car
> shakes or crashes, the camera will almost keep up. It's like the car is
> pinned to the middle of the screen This doesn't give a good impression of
> speed. When you hit a tree in gpl at 200 mph the camera will always keep the
> car in the center of the screen. I noticed WSC has this too.
> In real life there is always a time to react as a cameraman or as a
> spectator so you won't be able to follow the car all the time.
> Can't this be solved or haven't software companies thought of that yet?

by **Andre Warrin** » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00

Marc, where do you get all this info about WSC? Just curious...

Andre

>The West Bros are trying to sort this out for WSC - a sort of "AI" for the
>camera.

>Cheers!
>Marc

>> I noticed that in every replay of almost every sim the track camera always
>> keeps focussing directly on the middle of the car. Now matter how the car
>> shakes or crashes, the camera will almost keep up. It's like the car is
>> pinned to the middle of the screen This doesn't give a good impression of
>> speed. When you hit a tree in gpl at 200 mph the camera will always keep the
>> car in the center of the screen. I noticed WSC has this too.
>> In real life there is always a time to react as a cameraman or as a
>> spectator so you won't be able to follow the car all the time.
>> Can't this be solved or haven't software companies thought of that yet?

by **Marc J. Nelso** » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

The subject of camera views was discussed at E3. I didn't mean it to sound as
though they're working on AI-cameras, I simply used the term as a frame (pun) of
reference.

Cheers!
Marc

> Marc, where do you get all this info about WSC? Just curious...

> Andre

> >The West Bros are trying to sort this out for WSC - a sort of "AI" for the
> >camera.

> >Cheers!
> >Marc

> >> I noticed that in every replay of almost every sim the track camera always
> >> keeps focussing directly on the middle of the car. Now matter how the car
> >> shakes or crashes, the camera will almost keep up. It's like the car is
> >> pinned to the middle of the screen This doesn't give a good impression of
> >> speed. When you hit a tree in gpl at 200 mph the camera will always keep the
> >> car in the center of the screen. I noticed WSC has this too.
> >> In real life there is always a time to react as a cameraman or as a
> >> spectator so you won't be able to follow the car all the time.
> >> Can't this be solved or haven't software companies thought of that yet?

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