rec.autos.simulators

Another review of F1RS
Hi, I've just bought this today, and after playing around with it for
about two hours have formed the following opinion......

NB: I'm running it on my K6 200 (clocked at 225) with directx5 and
Win95 vb, 32 Mb SDram on a Supermicro P5MMA ATX m/b, and a 4Mb
Mystique card only, I have *NO* 3Dfx card!!!!

The game installed and ran first time, with no problems at all.
And thus far I have suffered none of the many reported bugs/problems.

I can run the game with all the graphics options on, in
Realistic/expert mode with no real noticeable slowdown?

I presume as I haven't got a 3Dfx card the graphics are not as good as
a pc that does have a 3dfx card? However, having said that, I would
say the graphics I am getting are at least on a par with GP2 in svga
mode?

In the time attack and practice modes, eg:- when only one car on the
track the game flies along.

I have tried a few race starts with all the other cars present and
there is a little slowdown, but it is certainly playable on my pc.

The frame rates appear no worse than gp2, and after the start of a
race the cars tend to spread out so you never really have more than
say three or four cars on the screen at any time after the start
anyway?

Some people have stated in other conf's/topics that the slow frame
rates make the game unplayable when there are a lot of cars on the
track? This is not happening on my pc, but obviously it will be worse
on a lower spec machine? and likewise better on a *ninja* pc?
(Mine was a *ninja* pc, but as it's more than two months old, it's now
obsolete)      8?)

The scenery is very nice, it seems more detailed than gp2, likewise
the cars seem more detailed too.

I should imagine *with* a 3Dfx card the graphics are stunning?

As I've only just got the game, and haven't really tried out the
driving too much I won't go into too much detail, and my opinion will
probably change as I get used to the driving model anyway?

I will say though that the realistic option, (haven't tried the easy
level?) makes the car quite a handful, with all the aids turned off I
found it undriveable with the keyboard (but hey, what's new there?)

Using my F1 Sim however, made it a lot more comfortable, although I
did spend most of my time driving either dreadfully slowly, or in the
gravel!!!!! I think the thing here is that just like gp1 & gp2, it is
going to take a *lot* of practice to bring the times down? and a while
to learn the set-ups too, as they are not the same as gp2? not at
first glance anyway?

The game menu's I did not like, they do not appear in a logical
sequence? so you find yourself searching for the menu item you want,
which can be annoying. But again, over time as you learn the menu
system it will get easier.

So first impressions of the game are good, some minor irritants, but I
think I am going to keep it for now. It looks to me like one of those
games that will grow on you, and a game that will reward you for
persevering with it, although perhaps we shouldn't have to?

Go on, buy it, even if you don't have a 3Dfx? (But you will need a
decent, fast, pc)

d?)

* Peter *  8-)   Please remove asterix from address to email.

I've borrowed a mate's copy for a few days (which tells you what he thinks
of it ;-) and I have to say I *really* want to like this sim. It's
gorgeous. The tracks are superb. I can even live with the menu system now
I've got a full install and it doesn't take a fortnight to change from one
to the next. Most of all, I really, *really* want to enjoy driving it.

But I don't. I've spent three hours fiddling with the steering sensitivity
etc. I've dumped all the driving aids and even swapped joysticks in case
that was the problem. But whatever I do I get the same sense of...er,
"detachment" from the controls I felt with the demo.

Overall, it's a really nice effort by the programmers. I just watched the
other drivers going round Monaco, and it was incredible. But I'm after
more than a very attractive screensaver, and my driving jury is definitely
out at the moment.

Andrew

When we encounter something slightly different it just doesn't *feel*
right? But I do think that with practice it will feel better, Im going
to perservere for now.

I usually use the keyboard with driving games/sims (even though I have
a T2 & an F1 Sim) but I just could not get any reasonable degree of
control with all the aids off in F1RS?

I have now switched to my F1 Sim and it was a vast improvement, have
you tried using a wheel and pedals rather than a joystick? it gives a
more natural feel to driving games/sims?

d:?)

* Peter *  8-)   Please remove asterix from address to email.

You owe it to yourself to buy a 3dFX card - the difference in F1RS
will _stun_ you, it's that good. I personally find the graphics a
little too bright and "cartoony", but undoubtedly they are gorgeous.
While on the subject, why is it that games like Andretti Racing and
F1RS have lens flare when you look at the sun? I don't have lenses in
my eye (not in that sense anyway).

Cheers!
John

Persevere, it does get better. I felt the same way when I first drove
it, but once you get the setup and controls sorted out it really feels
very good to drive. It lacks the impression of speed that GP2 has, but
the driving is quite similar in the nervousness of the car.

If you'd like any of my setups...you can go and get stuffed!!!!! Ha!!
I'm kidding, just give me a shout and I'll send them to you for you to
try.

Cheers!
John

% > I have to say I *really* want to like this sim. It's
% > gorgeous.

% Yeah I know what you mean,  think we are all so used to the driving
% model of gp2, which basically sets the standard for all other driving
% sims.

There are many who disagree that GP2 set the standard for driving models
in racing sims.  I think that we are beginning to see that maybe GP2 may
not have had the "real" handle on the handling physics.  Alot of this is
an "artistic" license deal.  Since one is limited on what can and can
not be simulated in driver feedback, each developer/programmer attacks
the driving model differently.  For instance Papy went way far on the
loose/sloppy side and Crammond went way far on the "guided by magnetic
rails" side.  Now don't get me wrong folks (am I getting gun-shy or
what? <G>), I am not saying one is better or the other is worse, just
that they are different.

This is my take on why different approaches are taken in sims as to
driving models/physics [as if anybody cared ;-)]:

Part of racing is pushing the envelope.  In order to do that one must
have feedback from a great many sources.  For the time being there are
only 2-1/2 sources available for the PC sims (sight, sound,
force-feedback wheels).  In the real world the driver is getting his
feedback from a 1000 or more sources at once and is reacting to them in
nano-seconds (well the good ones are).

I think that Papyrus's approach has always been to make the sim'mer
simulate the knife's edge.  I think this is why their driving models
have always been so easy to cross the edge.  To force the driver to work
at all times to keep the car in total control.  This makes for a hell of
a tough time mastering the sim.

Crammond on the other hand seems to have taken the approach that the
sim'mer automatically has "sensed" the car's edge and is racing within
the limits of the car's physics.  However, he did provide a knife's edge
and once you've crossed it, it's damn impossible to control the car.
That is why his driving model is so tight and "controlling".  This also
makes for an easier time mastering the sim.  While I don't mean it's
easier to make those killer laps all of you guys are doing, it does make
it easier to drive than Papy's sims.

To be honest there are good points and bad points to both approaches.
However, I am very pleased that we have the choice available to us as to
which method we enjoy the most.

% When we encounter something slightly different it just doesn't *feel*
% right? But I do think that with practice it will feel better, Im going
% to perservere for now.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Also agreed, everyone is different and has his/her own opinions. I
just like everyone to know MINE!!!!!!     8?)

One of the major limitations to sims I think? and there is no real way
around it? just like the *very* limited view you get from a monitor
compared to *real* vision in a car/plane/whatever.

Hmmm? No, I just can't bring myself to agree with you on that, I think
it's the opposite, papy sims are quite easy to drive, but it's gp2
that takes ages to learn to drive quickly? I have been driving
Crammonds sims for quite a while (Revs, F1GP1 & F1GP2) and I still
find myself learning new things about the way his cars handle.

It's true that once over the edge, his cars are very hard to bring
back, but thats how a real racing car is nowadays, how often do we see
cars being thrown all over the place? certainly not in Indy cars/F1 or
even NASCARS? Being quick in todays cars means being *smooth*.
But hey, I don't wanna get into a gp2 is better than IC's scrap, it's
just my opinion? Your points are noted, I just don't happen to agree
with them.

I agree wholeheartedly, with the new F1RS, GP Legends and TOCA touring
cars just around the corner, and hey, maybe even a *new* GP3 (I can
dream can't I?) there are more racing sims available to us than ever,
and that must be a good thing?

I just hope the producers of these (sometimes wonderful, sometimes
not) programs keep an eye in our direction, to give us what we
want.........Realism, as far as that is possible.

d:?)

* Peter *  8-)   Please remove asterix from address to email.

Andrew

...I've just caught something off C4 news (uk) about next year's Belgium
GP possibly being the last because the Belgian gov wants to enforce its
ban all tobacco ads. ***. I totally agree with the ban (separate issue,
I know) but Spa's a lovely track.

Mmm, could be a messy few years ahead.

it's not specific car setups that are the problem (though I've been noting
down the bits you've mentioned already ;-). I'm more concerned with the
interface between me and the car than the car and the track. Ok, it's hard
to tell where one problem ends and the other begins. But I want to be able
to duplicate the way an F1 car can spin from a standing start thanks to a
bit of heavy right foot and left lock. Can't find a way of doing that yet.
Maybe once I do I'll have found a control setup that's sensitive enough.

Andrew

PS You noticed (external view) that more often than not, once you get into
a doughnut it doesn't seem to precess. Car seems to be nailed to the
ground somewhere between the front wheels. Or maybe I'm just a technically
gifted driver :-)

PMFJI, but I see next to nothing in  the ng on Andretti Racing.  It got an OK
review in digitalsports.com, noting that it's on the arcade side, and some
slams about not starting in  the***pit, but nothing on the driving model.
Since I am in the US and can't get Ubi F1RS yet, I thought I might put AR on my
Christmas list.  The lack of sim features (real tracks, real drivers, a million
adjustments in the pits) doesn't bother me if the driving model and AI are
good.  My idea of good?  GP2 is great -- Ridge Racer sucks -- Psygnosis F1 is
somewhere in between, but not good enough to buy. I'm also attracted to the
idea of 2 different racing series with a couple of ovals(though I hated the
driving model in the CPR demo, even after fixing the joystick problem). I
gather form your post you may have driven AR and thought I'd ask for your
input.  What do you think?  TIA

 :)

--

Neil Yeatman          
Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

I would think it's because of the helmet visor.  =)

While we're off the subject, how's about some 'net-play with
F1RS?...I imagine Kali or Kahn would work, no?

Cheers!

Marc

I have to agree with your observations about Papyrus and Crammond, but I find I
have the opposite result... that is, it's easier to find the edge in Papyrus
sims, and easier to ride it.  If you've tweaked your car right, you have time
to regain control.  Whereas in GP2, you have to know where the line is and not
cross it.  I have had a much harder time with GP2 than ICR2, though I'll admit
to spending more time in ICR2.  However, I played a season in one, then a
season in the other (about 15 races, give or take), both sims got a lot of
time, and GP2 is definitely significantly more difficult and far less
forgiving.  But both are a HELL of a lot of fun to drive.   But you can slide
through the turns in ICR2 and that just doesn't work the same way in GP2...
which is, I believe, more realistic...

Colin Taber
Snake Racing
http://members.aol.com/snakeracin

Michael said:

Oops, you forgot to put "IMO". In MY opinion, GP2 is MUCH better. In
F1RS even 200+ feels mike about 100mph. The frame-rate is perfect in
comparison to GP2, and it looks better, but the impression of speed is
somewhat lacking.

Cheers!
John