No, but I'd certainly like to get my hands on it. Any idea if it's
available to download and from where?
Thanks! :-)
Neo
You're right about the pit strategies. That's something I hadn't
thought about. At the moment I can win most AI races at 100% with the
right setup, never needing to change it once I've found it. Random
weather effects would add a much bigger sense of realism to this.
'Slow' tire leaks is a great idea. Instead of your tires bursting in
one blow, feeling it reduce ever so slightly over a short period of
time would be neat.
In this situation a red flag would depend on how much litter was on
the track. Enough damage to put a hole in the wall should certainly
warrant it.
I'd still love to see this idea implimented.
Just like in Days of Thunder, with the rear bumper which caused all
the cars to go into a spin. Yes!
Neo
>Not this again. In the same vein, why not animated crowds, television
>crews, blimps, and any other resource-hogging non-race-related gizmo
>to "improve" the on-track experience?
If you were so concerned with resource hogging, I'm sure you would be
happy to race N3 with the same graphics from ICR1? Of course you
wouldn't. Visuals do play a BIG part of sim titles.
You're right. This is something which unfortunately N3 doesn't do very
well at all. Racing against human opponents over WON is NOTHING like
racing the AI.
Big improvements needed here!
Neo
If looks and feels completely unnatural.
Neo
Definately. The AI are just stupid when it comes to the distance
between you, them and walls.
I also hope that with the GPL engine, rubbing the wrong way can cause
the car in front to spin, just like in real life. N3 doesn't do this.
Now we're talking! Car flips WILL happen in N4, if Papy do use the GPL
engine. And the rest of it.
I wouldn't be surprised if we have the technology for this in just a
few years time. Seriously!
Neo
And what about the views we have to race? They all car enhance the
driving experience...
Neo
No it wouldn't. GPL did it and that was when a top system was a
Pentium II 450MHz with 128MB RAM and a Voodoo 2. Now we have systems
of 800MHz, 256MB RAM and the approaching Voodoo 4, 5 and 6's.
And whilst most people don't have systems like those, plenty have a
Pentium III 500MHz and above, which would be fine for what we're
talking about.
Neo
I'd like this - seeing the wheel jitter in GPL provides another visual input
to help show (along with force feedback) what the forces acting on the front
wheels. Without the sight of the front wheels and suspension moving, I
would like a more dynamic 3D***pit.
I agreee - in NASCAR, races are won and lost in the pits. I think having to
drive around the tires on the ground from cars in front/behind your pit box
and seeing pit crews swarming around would be great. This would be a huge
resource hog, but the #CPU cycles for the physics engine could be cut right
down when pitting and if it's an option, it could be enabled when we upgrade
to the 1GHz+ PCs.
Having to avoid the bouncing / rolling wheels when driving around a pile-up
would be exciting.
I'm sure this will be in N4 if they use the GPL engine. This is what I'm
looking forward to the most. I imagine that a lot more skill is required to
control wheel spin and keep the brakes from locking than what we need for
N3. I find lapping the converted N3 ovals in GPL take a lot more
concentration and is ultimately more rewarding.
Also the effects of contact with AI cars could use a lot of work - it seems
a bit canned to me in N3 where I always seem to spin if my front fender
contacts the rear fender of an AI car
I'd really like a wider field of vision, with the look left / look right
views, along with a better mirror. I like the mirror in the N3 beta patch,
but cars appear to be very far away - an option to enlarge the mirror (for
faster systems?) would be nice.
In multiplayer, I'd really like to be able to watch other cars in practice
when I join races. N3 supports this, but on WON, this usually doesn't work
very well compared to GPL. Probably a bandwidth limitation and with fields
up to 43 cars, this won't be easily addressed just with more powerful CPUs.
Brian
wouldn't that be entertaining? 8)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:18 PM
Subject: Ideas for Nascar 4
> Have Papyrus disclosed any information about what features they intend
> to include in Nascar 4.
> Presuming they do use the GPL engine - and there's now no valid reason
> why they shouldn't - they could include features which would tritely
> stand out above the rest of the Nascar series and making most other
> racing titles seem like toasted brownies.
> Lying awake in bed last night I jotted down a few ideas which I
> thought they should include in Nascar 4. Feel free to let me know what
> you think.
> a) "Driver hands, steering wheel and gear stick" - We already
> have this in Grand Prix Legends, so it's certainly possible for them
> to include it. Best of all it would put an end to the ugly static
>***pit we've had in each previous Nascar title.
> 2) "Fully working pit crew" - I'm sure many will agree that this
> is something which could, and perhaps should, have been included in
> Grand Prix Legends. No Nascar race is complete without pit stops,
> often due to damage rather than strategy. The 2D images of the pit
> crew in Nascar 3 make pitting a rather unrealistic and boring job.
> 3) "Realistic weather effects " Not all races can take place in
> the perfect sunshine. Whilst there is an option to enduce wind effects
> in Nascar 3, it's no very good, and besides the car performing a
> little worse when you're heading into the wind, there's not much else.
> Rainfall, clouds and a slight fog would all help add to the
> atmosphere. These weather effects certainly helped make TOCA and TOCA
> 2 more fun.
> 4) "Damaged car parts remain on track" - When cars in Nascar 3
> are damaged and pieces fall off, they usually disappear a few moments
> later, and whilst it's true that in real racing the yellow flag and
> pace car would come out to slow down the remaining cars so that safety
> guards could remove the dangerous items, I still wouldn't mind
> approaching a pile-up knowing that I had to avoid debris as well as
> the damaged cars.
> 5) "Damage to walls" - What happens when you hit a wall in N3?
> Besides the damage you receive, only a very unrealistic looking
> 'spark' appears to tell you you're scraping the wall. Nascar
> Revolution went one better here, by removing paint from your car and
> keeping it on the wall instead. Scraping paint off like this looks and
> feels much better, but still isn't quite good enough. What about
> actual damage to the walls as well? Who can forget Nigel Mansell's
> CART accident which put a hole through the outside concrete wall? (I
> mention that one not because it was very good, but because it's the
> only one I have on video) It's great to pass a corner in N3 and see
> the tyre tracks from where you or another car previously spun. This
> would be taking it to the next level.
> 6) "Fully working tractor" - In N3, if you blow your engine and
> can't make it back to the pit, your spotter tells you that the tow
> truck is on the way. Of course, we don't actually see it, cos' just
> like in real life it's invisible. Well, I'm sure this is what Papyrus
> would like us to believe, but it could certainly be done better. Show
> me the tractor! Show me the tractor! Show me the tractor! - putting on
> a very 'Jerry Maguire' style voice right now...
> 7) "Detailed car damage" - TOCA 2 had the windows smashing fully
> in a serious enough collision, and GPL had engines bleeding oil and
> even fire. What does N3 give us? A few bits of litter left behind and
> a puff of smoke of your blow the engine. The new wheel-spin smoke was
> a nice touch, but not enough of it was used and it didn't remain in
> the air long enough to be 'Days of Thunder' like, which Papy said it
> would be. A trail of slick oil coming from the car, which would then
> have an effect on the cars behind, would be awesome!
> 8) "Menu system" - Above all else, please get rid of the cheesy
> N2/N3 menus and garage and replace it with something fresh and better
> to use. I for one am not very keen on having to use the mouse to
> navigate around (and I'm sure I'm not alone, as this was discussed in
> another thread a while ago). Some keyboard shortcuts would be
> appreciated.
> 9) "Breaks and wheel-spin" - I love being able to press the
> breaks just enough that only ONE of the wheels locks up in GPL and not
> the other. It's a sign of good programming and a great physics engine.
> I wouldn't mind being able to lock up the front wheels in N4 either.
> We might not be able to see it as in GPL, but you could certainly feel
> it, and the replays would show it.
> 10) "More views" - The standard three views in N3 really aren't
> very good. They're the same as the ones from N1 and N2. GPL had less
> views as standard, but you could add more being editing one of the INI
> files, which was an added bonus. If all the views which we have access
> to in the replay, such as television 1 & 2, bumper, behind and best of
> all, roll-cage, were available instantly I know I'd be in racing
> heaven. I find television angles especially useful and fun.
> Looking over this message I see that I have appeared to put down
> Nascar 3 somewhat. Please don't think that. Nascar 3 is one of my
> favourite sims, and I play it almost as much as I do GPL, but I am
> well aware (as I'm sure are all of you) of how it could be improved.
> Let me know what you think...
> Neo
>>Sorry Neo, but I have to disagree with you.
>>Nothing that you mention will enhance the the "Racing", except maybe the
>>weather effects.
>>Just give me something close to the GPL physics and improve the AI.
>You're kidding, right? You telling me that you'd have as much fun with
>GPL if you weren't aware of how easily it was to damage the car?
>And what about the views we have to race? They all car enhance the
>driving experience...
Don McCorkle
I think, or at least 'hope' you were kidding about this. That's the
best thing about ovals - you also know that a left turn is
approaching.
If you're new to tracks like the Watkins Glen you might need a visual
or audio aid, but that's still highly unrealistic and a waste of time
and programming.
Not that I believe you were serious about this, mind you.
Neo
I love the***pit view in GPL, but I never use the outside view. My
favourite is the roll-bar however, and whilst it's a bit harder to
know when your rear end has come lose, it's the best for racing at the
Ring' and for multiplayer events, as you can easily see how far ahead
everything is.
It's also great if you haven't got a high spec machine, as I've found
it adds another 5 - 7 frames per second compared to the***pit.
Neo
They are??? Very cool!!! They should be able to stick...but be about as
tail-happy as a Lotus with a setup designed by a 5-year-old :)
You ever seen the brakes on those things? They're pretty friggin big (tho
not the monstrous masterpieces you'll find on something like the F50GT...if
I only had 1.44 million :)
Believe me, I guarantee you they can still lock up those brakes if they jam
them hard enough (ever seen someone spin trying to avoid another? chances
are they locked one up.). I guarantee you that if my Dad's '94 Camaro Z28
didn't have ABS, it'd have been wrecked by now...and I'm sure that thing
weighs about the same or a little more than a NASCAR.
Why remove roadcourses from NASCAR's shedule? I think they should have
more!!! I'd love to see them do 2-week stints at certain tracks - like
Daytona or Phoenix - and run the oval one week, the roadcourse the other.
--
Kirk Lane
ICQ: 28171652
BRT #187
"Yeah you won't find me
I'm going MIA
Tonight I'm leaving
Going MIA
Getting lost in you again
Is better than being known"
-Foo Fighters, "MIA"
> >I agree with Dean 100%. The only thing desirable in your original post for any
> >racing sim was weather, and for NASCAR that would be meaningless. As for
> >different views, I would rather throw the CD away than race in anything but
> >cockpit view. After carefull testing and data collection, I have found that I
> >never race GPL without using my arms and wheel. Nothing could be more
> >unnatural than having a second set on the screen.
The Roll Bar view/shy view/F10 view is a great tool for the
Nurburgring. However, once you learn the track, it becomes just like
any other track.. you know how far everything is and where everything
is. So, After learning the track, I switched to the***pit view and
not only did I have more fun, I improved my lap times by a whole lot.
I'd suggest learning the track in F10, then when you are good, use
***pit.
