rec.autos.simulators

by **John Wallac** » Sun, 24 Apr 2005 19:05:08

> Another person who thinks racing is about competition (even artificially
> sustained competition) rather than going fast.

First off, racing *is* abot competition - going fast is purely
incidental. Kart racing is massively slower than F1 - by that definition
it should not be racing? A Boeing 737 is pretty fast - but watching two
airlines fly quickly to New York isn't racing.

Where did I say they couldn't? But it doesn't happen with wind tunnels.

Jason, stop being a ***. If yuou can't debate without resorting to
ridiculous pigeon-holing don't bother.

As for soccer, there's a LOT more money in soccer than in F1, so what's
your point?

by **John Wallac** » Sun, 24 Apr 2005 19:06:23

> Indeed; whatever the numbers though, I think it would be safe to say it is
> the biggest sport on earth - with the exception of the olympics and world
> cup.

Football is FAR bigger. Okay, not as many people watch each individual
match, but over a weekend as a whole there are far more people watching
football than watching F1

That's proper football btw, not American football.

by **alex martin** » Mon, 25 Apr 2005 01:06:06

Well I'm not sure you're rightto compare it this way - to compare F1 (one
event) to ALL football matches in a weekend is hardly fair - you should
compare it to the biggest match of the weekend to be fair - otherwise we are
talking motor sports versus football (all racing series vs all football
matches over one weekend) which wasn't my point. My point is that, as a one
off "match", F1 has no competition from any sporting event.

>> Indeed; whatever the numbers though, I think it would be safe to say it
>> is the biggest sport on earth - with the exception of the olympics and
>> world cup.

> Football is FAR bigger. Okay, not as many people watch each individual
> match, but over a weekend as a whole there are far more people watching
> football than watching F1

> That's proper football btw, not American football.

by **Byron Forbe** » Mon, 25 Apr 2005 02:55:49

>> > What so offends you about the idea that one sport might actually
>> > promote technological advancement first?

>> If that's what they were doing it would be ok - and with much less
>> money.

>> You realise that you're talking about a sport that has basically
>> suffocated any substantial innovation due to the rules.

> And you propose to fix that with even more rules.

I'm really not interested whether humanity gets big returns from
motorsport or not - other than entertainment. Having results dictated by
budget is not entertaining to me.

You should hang out at late night burger joints then! :)

by **Byron Forbe** » Mon, 25 Apr 2005 02:58:32

And if F1 want that to contunue then budget dictated outcomes MUST go.

Btw - GO WEBBER!

by **Byron Forbe** » Mon, 25 Apr 2005 03:27:35

Superbowl? Soccer World Cup? Wimbledon?

It's different too. Many nations are represented in many ways at every
F1 event.

by **John Wallac** » Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:12:20

> Well I'm not sure you're rightto compare it this way - to compare F1 (one
> event) to ALL football matches in a weekend is hardly fair - you should
> compare it to the biggest match of the weekend to be fair - otherwise we are
> talking motor sports versus football (all racing series vs all football
> matches over one weekend) which wasn't my point. My point is that, as a one
> off "match", F1 has no competition from any sporting event.

In that case your comparison is not exactly fair - one biggest football
match is not made available to the entire audience the way F1 is. When
it is (e.g. World Cup final) football is the largest.

The original point was not about viewing figures - the assertion was
that F1 was the biggest sport on earth, irrespective of what the numbers
say. However as everyone outside the US knows, football is by far the
biggest sport on earth.

by **David G Fishe** » Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:07:29

> > Well I'm not sure you're rightto compare it this way - to compare F1
(one
> > event) to ALL football matches in a weekend is hardly fair - you should
> > compare it to the biggest match of the weekend to be fair - otherwise we
are
> > talking motor sports versus football (all racing series vs all football
> > matches over one weekend) which wasn't my point. My point is that, as a
one
> > off "match", F1 has no competition from any sporting event.

> In that case your comparison is not exactly fair - one biggest football
> match is not made available to the entire audience the way F1 is. When
> it is (e.g. World Cup final) football is the largest.

> The original point was not about viewing figures - the assertion was
> that F1 was the biggest sport on earth, irrespective of what the numbers
> say. However as everyone outside the US knows, football is by far the
> biggest sport on earth.

I suppose soccer is probably the biggest sport on earth, mainly because it's
a sport that the poorest people on the planet can play. All you need is a
ball to play soccer. You can fairly compare soccer to auto racing, but not
soccer to F1.

F1 is a league, like the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. F1 is a league within
motorsport. There is no soccer league, even if you include all the games
played in one week in whatever soccer league you choose, that comes close to
the viewing numbers of one F1 race.

No idea how many total viewers watch soccer throughout the world each
weekend, but I do wonder though if it equals the viewers for one F1 race.

As successful as the NFL is for example, it's total viewership for one
weekend is dwarfed by F1 (same thing for NASCAR). Even the Super Bowl
doesn't draw nearly as many viewers as tomorrow's Imola race.

F1 is clearly the most successful league on the planet. It dwarfs the other
leagues within it's sport, and all other leagues in other sports. Since
nobody is trying to win the prize for #1 sport, but there are many striving
for #1 league, I think F1 has a lot to celebrate considering it's ***.

--
David G Fisher

by **alex martin** » Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:30:47

football world cup is once every four years - wimbledon is once a year (and
nowhere close, as far as I know, to one F1 race) and the superbowl same

>> Well I'm not sure you're rightto compare it this way - to compare F1 (one
>> event) to ALL football matches in a weekend is hardly fair - you should
>> compare it to the biggest match of the weekend to be fair - otherwise we
>> are talking motor sports versus football (all racing series vs all
>> football matches over one weekend) which wasn't my point. My point is
>> that, as a one off "match", F1 has no competition from any sporting
>> event.

> Superbowl? Soccer World Cup? Wimbledon?

> It's different too. Many nations are represented in many ways at every
> F1 event.

by **alex martin** » Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:32:09

>> Well I'm not sure you're rightto compare it this way - to compare F1 (one
>> event) to ALL football matches in a weekend is hardly fair - you should
>> compare it to the biggest match of the weekend to be fair - otherwise we
>> are talking motor sports versus football (all racing series vs all
>> football matches over one weekend) which wasn't my point. My point is
>> that, as a one off "match", F1 has no competition from any sporting
>> event.

> In that case your comparison is not exactly fair - one biggest football
> match is not made available to the entire audience the way F1 is. When it
> is (e.g. World Cup final) football is the largest.

> The original point was not about viewing figures - the assertion was that
> F1 was the biggest sport on earth, irrespective of what the numbers say.
> However as everyone outside the US knows, football is by far the biggest
> sport on earth.

Certainly not my assertion - and big football matches nowadays are indeed
available to a huge audience - chelsea-aresenal was shown in 110 countries
...

by **alex martin** » Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:36:40

>>>> Indeed; whatever the numbers though, I think it would be safe to say it
>>>> is
>>>> the biggest sport on earth - with the exception of the olympics and
>>>> world cup.

>>> A mere consequence of more people with TVs.

>> The fact that people watch F1 is because they have TVs? They could be
>> watching nascar or scuba diving - but they're watching F1.

> And if F1 want that to contunue then budget dictated outcomes MUST go.

> Btw - GO WEBBER!

Webber? who's he then ;-). But Schumi is amazing - 36 and he has what I
consider to be his finest race in a decade. Amazing ... Alonso vs Schumi -
just like it should have been Senna vs Schumi - looks like it's gonna be a
great season eh!

by **David G Fishe** » Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:18:11

> >>>> Indeed; whatever the numbers though, I think it would be safe to say
it
> >>>> is
> >>>> the biggest sport on earth - with the exception of the olympics and
> >>>> world cup.

> >>> A mere consequence of more people with TVs.

> >> The fact that people watch F1 is because they have TVs? They could be
> >> watching nascar or scuba diving - but they're watching F1.

> > And if F1 want that to contunue then budget dictated outcomes MUST
go.

> > Btw - GO WEBBER!

> Webber? who's he then ;-). But Schumi is amazing - 36 and he has what I
> consider to be his finest race in a decade. Amazing ... Alonso vs Schumi -
> just like it should have been Senna vs Schumi - looks like it's gonna be a
> great season eh!

Schumacher was incredible today. The pass on Button was worth all the passes
in 20 NASCAR races. Alonso wasn't even close to his pace in that race. I
said somewhere in this thread last week that I hope MS comes back and wins
the championship so he can thumb his nose at those who have celebrated the
changes made in F1 to try and stop him. Looks like he may be back on top
again. Renault wasn't close today.

--
David G Fisher

by **Byron Forbe** » Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:36:08

>>>>> Indeed; whatever the numbers though, I think it would be safe to say
>>>>> it is
>>>>> the biggest sport on earth - with the exception of the olympics and
>>>>> world cup.

>>>> A mere consequence of more people with TVs.

>>> The fact that people watch F1 is because they have TVs? They could be
>>> watching nascar or scuba diving - but they're watching F1.

>> And if F1 want that to contunue then budget dictated outcomes MUST go.

>> Btw - GO WEBBER!

> Webber? who's he then ;-). But Schumi is amazing - 36 and he has what I
> consider to be his finest race in a decade. Amazing ... Alonso vs Schumi -
> just like it should have been Senna vs Schumi - looks like it's gonna be a
> great season eh!

Great race! But yeah, wtf happened to Webber and
Williams???????????????????? :(((((

by **Stephen F** » Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:14:51

Highly entertaining. The rate Massa was catching the two gives a clear
indication of how ragged Alonso's car was, and what a good job he was doing
to keep Schumacher at bay.

by **John Wallac** » Wed, 27 Apr 2005 02:00:27

> Schumacher was incredible today. The pass on Button was worth all the passes
> in 20 NASCAR races. Alonso wasn't even close to his pace in that race. I
> said somewhere in this thread last week that I hope MS comes back and wins
> the championship so he can thumb his nose at those who have celebrated the
> changes made in F1 to try and stop him. Looks like he may be back on top
> again. Renault wasn't close today.

MS certainly was sensational, but if indeed he had that raw pace
relative to Alonso, where was he in first qualifying? Why in "flat out
mode" did he not have the legs of Alonso and/or Raikkonen?

In terms of rule changes, what is pretty disappointing is how rule
changes designed to avoid the problem of following another car's dirty
air seems to have been exacerbated. MS is 2+ seconds a lap faster and
can't pass his brother?! I actually thought the Button pass was pretty
lucky - well taken opportunist move, but more of a daft error by Button
(stumbling over the backmarker) than a sensational move by MS.

Still, with Raikonnen's pace, Alonso and the rebounding Ferrari, the
combination of the three *might* be enough even to make Barcelona
interesting.

rec.autos.simulators

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