rec.autos.simulators

by **Wolfgang Prei** » Tue, 26 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>I dowloaded a few of his laps and have been disecting them. I still am
>trying to figure out where he is making the second on me at Monza tho. We
>run almost the same entry, middle and exit corner speeds witht he exception
>of Parabolica and I really not sure if there is a full second in
>Parabolica. I guess a few hundred more laps will be the final decider for
>me.

Parabolica is the beginning of one *huge* straight. A few mph
difference in exit speed can add up to a lot of time over the whole
straight, I should think. Especially since the car is always
accelerating. You might like to compare the time it takes to get from
the end of the guardrail on the left of Parabolica to the braking zone
for Curva Grande.

--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

by **Ian La** » Tue, 26 Jan 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:02:20 +0100, "Tadej Krevh"

>Yeah, unbeliavable.
>But I think once I get my PDPI settled (it still needs some fine tunning)
>and
>replace the pots I should be in the magic 1.26 at Monza :o))

It's possible. But it will take hours to get I believe. My 1m27s09
took around 2 hours, so to get into the 26's is going to take many
more.

One technique for this jumpiness is to short calibrate your
accelerator. i.e. when calibrating don't push it all the way in. Leave
a few millimetres of gap. That way you garanteed full throttle, when u
put the pedal to the metal :)

hehehe, yeah it was 1m27s16 for race 2 :)

Ian

by **Karissa Thom** » Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Rouen's the only track that I've done a warp-speed lap at... 2.14 seconds!

by **DAVI** » Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Wolfgang you are right there, the MPH is the same but since the car is
near top revs I might not be at 193 MPH as long I will have to look at
that.

Thanks,

--
David Robinson

Egan's Law

The Pace car will always go 2 MPH slower then your race car idles in first
gear.

> >I dowloaded a few of his laps and have been disecting them. I still am
> >trying to figure out where he is making the second on me at Monza tho.
We
> >run almost the same entry, middle and exit corner speeds witht he
exception
> >of Parabolica and I really not sure if there is a full second in
> >Parabolica. I guess a few hundred more laps will be the final decider
for
> >me.

> Parabolica is the beginning of one *huge* straight. A few mph
> difference in exit speed can add up to a lot of time over the whole
> straight, I should think. Especially since the car is always
> accelerating. You might like to compare the time it takes to get from
> the end of the guardrail on the left of Parabolica to the braking zone
> for Curva Grande.

> --
> Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

cancellation

warned.

by **Matthias Fla** » Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>>I dowloaded a few of his laps and have been disecting them. I still am
>>trying to figure out where he is making the second on me at Monza tho. We
>>run almost the same entry, middle and exit corner speeds witht he exception
>>of Parabolica and I really not sure if there is a full second in
>>Parabolica. I guess a few hundred more laps will be the final decider for
>>me.
>Parabolica is the beginning of one *huge* straight. A few mph
>difference in exit speed can add up to a lot of time over the whole
>straight, I should think. Especially since the car is always
>accelerating. You might like to compare the time it takes to get from
>the end of the guardrail on the left of Parabolica to the braking zone
>for Curva Grande.

Okay, let's figure it out:
Let's compare two drivers accelerating out of a 100mph curve on a long
straight, topping out at 200mph, but the slower guy is on the gas 50
meters later.
If both are accelerating the same way (the two acceleration curves are
50 meters apart, no wheelspin, same car and setup) the difference is
that the slow guy is cruising the first 50 meters at the beginning at
100mph (1.125sec), while the fast pilot is speeding 'his' 50 meters at
200mph at the end of the straight. The difference is only 0.56 seconds
which is IMHO not much compared to the 50 meters (or more than 10
lenghts of a car, or 1.125sec) which the slow driver hesitates before
he dares to move his right foot.
So IMHO pretty awful driving is needed to lose 0.5 seconds between two
corners. I think "exit speed" is somewhat overrated.

--
_____
/_______\ .\\ a t t h e a d
I XT /~~~~
I 500\_____ 1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro
\____/\__I_I http://matthead.home.pages.de/

by **Matthias Fla** » Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:44:41 +0000, Paul Jones

>I think this is a terrible idea, if it were there I'd use but it's bad just the
>same. Worse than this though is the racing line drawn on with *** - you just
>don't get this on race tracks

What?
Certainly, there is a racing line on race tracks, if there was a race
or practise.

I think it's needed for orientation, especially for braking - there
are to few distance signs or other marks at the side of the tracks.

Helpful, certainly. But not "original 1967".

--
_____
/_______\ .\\ a t t h e a d
I XT /~~~~
I 500\_____ 1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro
\____/\__I_I http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Mike Buckle** » Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Good point, I've been following this thread as a mediocre driver (low
1:30's at Monza) and last night tried to do what was suggested - take a
fast replay and note down max/min straight/corner speeds. Comparing my
laps against a 1:27.7 shows that i'm reaching the same top speeds on the
straights and am hitting the same min speeds on the corners, the only
place i'm losing out is that i'm 4 miles an hour down on the curve after
the bridge. I find it hard to believe that 4 mph there equates to nearly
2.5 seconds a lap.

Studying the replay more closely it seems that the faster driver is at
minimum speed in the corner for a much shorter length of time before he
gets on the gas, this must mean that i'm at maximum speed on a straight
for less time, but again - 2.5 seconds a lap???

I must be losing the time elsewhere - quite probably in my braking areas
where i'm sure there is room for improvement.

just my tuppence worth

--
Mike Buckley

WWW: www.toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk

by **Jack** » Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Well let's assume that your time through the corners is identical. There
still remain any number of different ways to get from Exit Point A to Entry
Point B while maintaining identical exit and entry speeds. Perhaps your
gearing is different, affecting your rate of acceleration between A and B?

Secondly, consider your attitude on exit from the corners. Even though their
exit speeds may be identical, the driver who is scrubbing more on exit will
be slower than the driver who's not. Along those same lines, consider the
fact that the speed observed may or may not be along the groove. If the
"speed" is the velocity component along the car's longitudinal axis, and not
along the groove, then what's observed to be identical exit speeds may not,
in fact, be identical. I guess, tire slippage could also be a consideration
also if "speed" is measured, as in a road car, off wheel rotation.

Finally, have you considered actually doing a little split timing while
watching the replays? Since you race, I know you have a good timer.

Having said all that, I hope it does you no good whatsoever. You're too fast
as is. <G>

by **DAVI** » Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Good idea I have not done that yet.

by **Paul Jone** » Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:00:00

> Worse than this though is the racing line drawn on with *** - you just
> >don't get this on race tracks
> What?
> Certainly, there is a racing line on race tracks, if there was a race
> or practise.

Well, on a real circuit, I've never seen a racing line like the ones you get in GPL
and other sims. I think it would be even more unlikely with the kind of tyre (tire)
compounds that they used in 1967,
Cheers,
Paul

by **KPineb** » Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:00:00

A buddy of mine is having trouble with a T2 in ICR2 -- it steers in the
opposite direction. I tried recalibrating it with him, but that didn't help.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Kurt

by **Sam Seni** » Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:00:00

I don't have either a T2 or ICR2, but I have had that symptom. When
you calibrate, try turning the wheel the other way first, from your
usual way. Worked for me. Another time, I calibrated several times and
it finally worked.
Sam

by **Ian La** » Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:15:27 +0000, Paul Jones

>> Worse than this though is the racing line drawn on with *** - you just
>> >don't get this on race tracks
>> What?
>> Certainly, there is a racing line on race tracks, if there was a race
>> or practise.

>Well, on a real circuit, I've never seen a racing line like the ones you get in GPL
>and other sims. I think it would be even more unlikely with the kind of tyre (tire)
>compounds that they used in 1967,

I remmember watching the F1 saga a while ago on tv. In one episode
they showed the 1967 cars and circuits. I remmember a camera angle
they had that was above the station hairpin at monaco. It had an
extremely dark racing groove around the entire corner.

Ian

by **Casper Gripenbe** » Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>Okay, let's figure it out:
>Let's compare two drivers accelerating out of a 100mph curve on a long
>straight, topping out at 200mph, but the slower guy is on the gas 50
>meters later.
>If both are accelerating the same way (the two acceleration curves are
>50 meters apart, no wheelspin, same car and setup) the difference is
>that the slow guy is cruising the first 50 meters at the beginning at
>100mph (1.125sec), while the fast pilot is speeding 'his' 50 meters at
>200mph at the end of the straight. The difference is only 0.56 seconds
>which is IMHO not much compared to the 50 meters (or more than 10
>lenghts of a car, or 1.125sec) which the slow driver hesitates before
>he dares to move his right foot.

This is where you're probably mistaken. The two 'accelerating curves'
won't stay 50m apart through the acceleration. The distance will
grow with time. This comes from the fact that the guy starting
to accelerate earlier has a higher speed at any point and time
on the straight where he's accelerating than the guy starting
50m later. So at the end of the straight your 50m will
have grown to, say 70m or a 100m.

This is why it always feels difficult to overtake another car when
accelerating out from a corner. The other car will always seem to pull
impossibly away. The only way to pass a car is by either drafting
or leaving enough room before the exit of the turn so that you can
get on the gas earlier when coming out. Actually a combination of both
would seem to be most effective :) This is why when 'defending' your
position it is a good idea to slow down excessivly in a corner so that
the car behind you failes to get the needed room he needs to get
on the gas earlier. I.e. he's so close to you that he has to
wait for you to start accelerating _first_ before he can
start accelerating.

Ok. This is not the only factor which makes a fast lap. Others
have commented on driving at Vmin through the corner for
a shorter period, for example. I guess an ideal corner
entry & exit would be to have the car constantly accelerating
or decelerating. So just as you reach the apex you lift the
brakes and immidiately step on the gas. Your total time at
Vmin time will be infinitely small.

Another factor might be the driving line. You can take the
long way around a corner or the short way..but still with
comparable Vmax/min speeds.

Regards,
Casper

rec.autos.simulators

Fast laps in GPL

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Fast laps in GPL

Fast laps in GPL

Fast laps in GPL

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