rec.autos.simulators

by **Steve Whitt** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:45:09

> You're not really counting that as a "Bathurst" win are you Bruce?

> > They certainly did....a 1-2 finish and the 10th. win at Panorama for
Peter
> > Perfect!

I would include it as win number 10. If you look back at the changes in the
rules and car specs since Brock started racing at Bathurst. The cars have
gone from street legal road cars to purpose built race cars. Considering it
was still an endurance race and they coverered over 3000kms, yeah its win
number 10. Maybe now Brock can relax without the fans wishing for that
magic number 10!!:-)

Steve

by **Steve Whitt** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:18:50

> > Why not?
> > Let's look at the facts:

> > 1) Venue = Mt. Panorama, Bathurst.
> > 2) Event = Endurance motor race.
> > 3) Driver's name = Peter Brock.
> > 4) Finishing Position = 1st.
> > 5) Number of previous first-places in endurance motor races held at
> Bathurst
> > = 9.

> > Yep - I reckon that all adds up to win number 10.

> A hollow victory. A car that couldn't lose (barring unreliability), that
> didn't even conform to the racing series' technical regulations.

> KK

A car that couldn't loose. What about driver error, animals on track,
weather, tyre failure(one team had seven punctures). Fatigue(driver, pit
crew, car). No driver or car is ever guarenteed a win in any race. So many
variables to take into consideration.
As to conforming to regulations. If the officials allow it to race, its
legit. If the other teams want to protest, they can. This is the second
year and I haven't seen a court challenge to its legallity yet.

It all boils down to money. How many more people are watching on TV or
going to the tracks to see these cars, just because there is an Australian
designed and built car racing? All motorsport has one purpose. $$$$$
If the Monaro puts bums on seats at the tracks, I see it as a good thing.

Steve

by **J.D. Elli** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:43:15

> Just to clarify...To race a GTS Viper, you first bought a GTS-R Viper
and
> then added your team's tweeks. To race a GTS Corvette, you got Pratt &
> Miller to build a wider, longer version of the C5. Saleen then followed
> the Corvette model and built their GTS prototype from the ground up as
> well. I won't say who complained first about the Saleen... :)

Considering they all have the same rulebook (and French scrutineers at Le
Mans) to work with, I'd just say it's your usual sour grapes. ;-) The Viper
was originally a GT1 car too, I believe, but elected to drop down to GT2
once Porsche reinterpreted the rules...

The Ferrari, Viper, and Corvette are all production-derived race cars. The
Saleen is a race car-derived "production" car. While one can argue
semantics, it seems pretty obvious that the Saleen is not a high-volume
production car modified for racing, per the ACO/IMSA rules.

Pratt & Miller are a GM contractor, no different than when ORECA built Viper
GTS-R's

Just go enjoy the TPTCC mod! :-p :-D

-jde

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:56:05

I am and I will...:)

dave henrie

by **Kasper Kowalsk** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:41:25

"Steve Whitty" <stev_mazz NOSPAM at optusnet dot com dot au> wrote in

Sounds remarkably similar to the Michelin saga.... 'If the officials allow
it to race, its legit'.... ?

Just because the officials allow it to race, doesn't make it legit. It just
means that allowing it to race serves some agenda which benefits the
officials. A number of teams cried foul in the Monaro's first year... I
imagine they decided not to bother this year because it was clear upon which
side of the fence the officials sat.

Funny, I thought the purpose of motorsport was racing. It's a sad day when a
formula allows the racing to take a back seat to the $$$.

KK

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:03:35

"Can't lose"?
Obviously you haven't checked LAST year's results, Kasper! :)

Bruce.

> > Why not?
> > Let's look at the facts:

> > 1) Venue = Mt. Panorama, Bathurst.
> > 2) Event = Endurance motor race.
> > 3) Driver's name = Peter Brock.
> > 4) Finishing Position = 1st.
> > 5) Number of previous first-places in endurance motor races held at
> Bathurst
> > = 9.

> > Yep - I reckon that all adds up to win number 10.

> A hollow victory. A car that couldn't lose (barring unreliability), that
> didn't even conform to the racing series' technical regulations.

> KK

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:05:20

Sadly, that is the name of modern motor-racing, Kasper, and has been so for
at least two decades.

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:10:16

You keep saying this........

.....yet have not given a reason as to WHY it was racing, why NOBODY
protested the cars and why NOBODY protested the results.

Show me the CAMS technical regulations for the event which specifically go
against the Monaro's - as entered - being ineligible.
Obviously you must have them, or at least know the area(s) which preclude
the Monaro?

Bruce.

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:14:02

See, the following is the general description of the A Class....

Class A:
For cars complying with the current technical regulations for; Australian
Nations Cup Group 1, FIA Series Grand Touring Cars (N-GT), British GTO,
All Japan GT - Group 2, American Grand Am (GT), Lamborghini Trophy.

PROCAR Australia Pty Ltd, in conjunction with the CAMS reserve the right to
invite vehicles from other Categories whose Technical Regulations are based
on FIA Series N-GT regulations and a copy of such rules must be submitted at
the time of the entry.

From their web-site.

Bruce.

by **Kasper Kowalsk** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:31:31

Nations Cup/FIA-GT/etc are *production* categories. The Monaro 427 is not a
production car... different engine, different drivetrain.

The rules have been cleverly worded to allow the Monaro to compete, despite
being entirely against the spirit of the series.

KK

by **J.D. Elli** » Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:26:47

Technically speaking, doesn't the 911 GT3-RS use an engine not directly
derived from the production engine? I seem to remember that being discussed
when they were griping about the "illegal" M3-GTR.

-jde

by **Kasper Kowalsk** » Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:54:33

> > The Monaro 427 is not a
> > production car... different engine, different drivetrain.

> Technically speaking, doesn't the 911 GT3-RS use an engine not directly
> derived from the production engine? I seem to remember that being
discussed
> when they were griping about the "illegal" M3-GTR.

Not sure... what sort of differences? Different block?

KK

by **Byron John Forbe** » Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:16:35

Unfortunately, Holden (Australian GM) has owned major motorsport here in
Aus for a while now. It has become their own advertising campaign and no one
seems to mind too much. Or has the power to stop them.

Case in point - a few years back, testing was carried out on the front
spoilers of the GM cars for parity - carried out by - wait for it - the
Holden Dealer Team! LOL.

by **Byron John Forbe** » Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:21:43

So this is the "real" Bathurst in your book now Bruce? So what's the V8
Supercar one then?

Mate, it's gotta be part of the ATCC to qualify - in my book. Gee people
get obsessed with their heroes and nice round numbers like "10"! :)

> Why not?
> Let's look at the facts:

> 1) Venue = Mt. Panorama, Bathurst.
> 2) Event = Endurance motor race.
> 3) Driver's name = Peter Brock.
> 4) Finishing Position = 1st.
> 5) Number of previous first-places in endurance motor races held at
Bathurst
> = 9.

> Yep - I reckon that all adds up to win number 10.

> Bruce.

> > You're not really counting that as a "Bathurst" win are you Bruce?

> > > They certainly did....a 1-2 finish and the 10th. win at Panorama for
> Peter
> > > Perfect!

by **Byron John Forbe** » Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:27:45

From what I have read on usenet, the car was "meant" to be a production
car but this decision was conveniently changed after they built enough to
race. And apparently when they worked out how much a road going car would
end up costing to the public.

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