rec.autos.simulators

by **Lawrence Edward** » Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Hi John

>On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:41:06 -0000, "Lawrence Edwards"

>>I've lost count of the number of times I've been shunted off the track
from
>>behind, even in the warm-ups when braking at the last possible moment in
the
>>cars with the best brakes (e.g. Parabolica at Monza). This inevitably
leads
>>to the culprit being put out of the race - hardly realistic IMO.

>Perhaps your braking technique needs work? Also you should be careful
>not to move onto the line of the AI after starting braking - if you
>(and they) are at the limit of braking and you cut them off they have
>the same problem as you would - they have nowhere to go.

While I'm working on my braking technique, it would be preferable IMO to be
able to reduce the level of the opposition. I can't see how that would
detract from GPL - quite the opposite. Maybe I'll try altering the
drivers.ini settings to achieve this.

Agreed 100%

I'm basing my opinion on the fact that I find it very diificult to even do
full laps even when driving at much below racing speed. I know that 1967 was
a dangerous year - but not all the drivers were killed. How many times have
you had an accident in GPL?

In a real car there is additional feedback which lets you know when you are
near the limit. Indeed - I think it says as much in Steve Smith's guide. I
agree with his view that GPL will therefore seem more difficult to drive
than a real car. This is my point - my perception is that the car is more
difficult to drive around a circuit than a real car.

by **Michael E. Carve** » Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:00:00

% I also don't think anyone has addressed the point that it is realistic for
% the AI to put themselves out of the race during practise sessions with
% suicidal driving. Surely you agree that this is not 'realistic'?

While the GPL AI is a huge improvement over past Papy efforts, they are
still lacking in some Intelligence. They also move over onto you even
though the don't need to. I wonder if there are some adjustment that
can be made in the .ini files regarding the AI's reaction time. It
seems that they are not looking ahead far enough and not reacting soon
enough. I am not talking about the individual driver settings, but the
global AI ini files.

While we are speaking of "flaw", the are some graphical glitches, there
seems to be some weird pink sheet of plastic stuck under the armco at
Monaco.

The sounds for the Coventry continues to "phaze shift" from left to
right for no apparent reason.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Michael E. Carve** » Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:00:00

% Perhaps your braking technique needs work? Also you should be careful
% not to move onto the line of the AI after starting braking - if you
% (and they) are at the limit of braking and you cut them off they have
% the same problem as you would - they have nowhere to go.

John, this happens even when you have followed your line the whole way.
The AI should be aware (due to their closing speed), that they should
move over and take another line for braking, but they do not.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Pat Dotso** » Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:00:00

> % Perhaps your braking technique needs work? Also you should be careful
> % not to move onto the line of the AI after starting braking - if you
> % (and they) are at the limit of braking and you cut them off they have
> % the same problem as you would - they have nowhere to go.

> John, this happens even when you have followed your line the whole way.
> The AI should be aware (due to their closing speed), that they should
> move over and take another line for braking, but they do not.

For a long time I never drove any car other than the Lotus or Eagle,
and never had an AI car hit me from behind.

Just for fun, I decided to try running a season with the Coventry.
In the Coventry, even though I am running fast and braking late,
sometimes the AI will hit me. It's as though the AI has less
respect or patience for a driver in a Coventry than for someone
in a Lotus. Might this be a programmed feature of the sim?

Oh, and it's usually a Ferrari! Maybe it's just nationalism
rearing it's head :)

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

by **Lawrence Edward** » Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Francois

I emailed you with an abusive private email so you would see what it's like.
I didn't feel it necessary to inflict it on the rest of the NG. You started
it. I merely expressed an opinion that I though GPL has some faults and for
*no reason* you flame me with an abusive reply.

How old are you? Yes, I have driven plenty of cars, watched plenty of films
and used computers for more than 18 years, including driving simulations
since about 1981. I am entitled to prefer films in full screen. I am
entitled to think GPL has faults. You really need to grow up and get your
head out of your arse.

Oh and by the way, you missed "off" and "stupid" from my quote.

-----Original Message-----

Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
Date: 06 November 1998 03:18
Subject: Re: GPL Fullscreen?

>Lawrence Edwards wrote
>> And yes, I do complain when films are shown on TV in 'letterbox'
>>format as I prefer full screen.

>Ok.. after "Have you ever drove a car?" here is ...

>"Have you ever watched a movie?"

>What you just wrote is very very very hilarious. Hmm, that's probably why
>the Pan&Scan version of Star Wars doesn't show the Tusken Raiders... and
>that I got them in Letterbox.

>Do you know that when you watch a movie on television, that the image is
>cropped and edited so you actualy loose (depending on the original ratio)
30
>to 40% of the actual movie ? You ever watched 2001 in Letterbox ? The movie
>vision is completely different.

>Of course, coming from what you said about GPL, Im not surprise of such
>words out of your mouth. Oh btw this person emailed me with a "F*ck you
>French bastard" post.

>- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
>- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
>- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
>- Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ on the NROS
>- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
>how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

>Lawrence Edwards wrote
>> And yes, I do complain when films are shown on TV in 'letterbox'
>>format as I prefer full screen.

>Ok.. after "Have you ever drove a car?" here is ...

>"Have you ever watched a movie?"

>What you just wrote is very very very hilarious. Hmm, that's probably why
>the Pan&Scan version of Star Wars doesn't show the Tusken Raiders... and
>that I got them in Letterbox.

>Do you know that when you watch a movie on television, that the image is
>cropped and edited so you actualy loose (depending on the original ratio)
30
>to 40% of the actual movie ? You ever watched 2001 in Letterbox ? The movie
>vision is completely different.

>Of course, coming from what you said about GPL, Im not surprise of such
>words out of your mouth. Oh btw this person emailed me with a "F*ck you
>French bastard" post.

>- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
>- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
>- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
>- Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/ on the NROS
>- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
>how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

by **Trip** » Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:00:00

> I also don't think anyone has addressed the point that it is realistic for
> the AI to put themselves out of the race during practise sessions with
> suicidal driving. Surely you agree that this is not 'realistic'?

I haven't seen this sort of behavior from the AI yet... You're seeing
them crash out during practice sessions?

Trips

by **Matthias Buesi** » Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:00:00

LE> The AI suck big time because they drive like psychopaths.

I cannot see this behavior !?

LE> The graphics are good but only fill some of the screen

I think the grafics should have been better...

LE> The cars are much too difficult to drive and this is very unrealistic

No. GPL is the FIRST sim with realistic physics - that's for sure. Under-
steer and oversteer...it's all there, and you can handle it with the
gas pedal. THAT's racing !!

BTW: remember that in 1967 there were no wings and spoilers at all...
the F1 from today should be easier to drive.

LE> The sound is not at all convincing

I think you haven't heard the Ferrari, have you !?

Also, man mailt sich...

.\\atze [ FmMW2109 - FmMB2139 ]

*home* : http://www.home4u.de/buesing/

by **Matthias Buesi** » Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:00:00

DH> You betcha it sucks. What GPL really needs is
DH> some airplanes or balloons floating by like in
DH> NFS. And lotsa clouds too.

Bah - please go back to your arcade-racer...GPL will separate
the boys from the men.

The physics are the difference that helped GPL becoming a
legend...not the grafics - although I hae to admit that GPL with
the realistic grafics of NFS III would be great. But please: no
balloons or other stupid flying objects !!

Also, man mailt sich...

.\\atze [ FmMW2109 - FmMB2139 ]

*home* : http://www.home4u.de/buesing/

by **Matthias Buesi** » Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:00:00

JS> I have to know something: Why didn't anybody complain about this in
JS> F1RS, but now its like the number 1 complaint in GPL? In F1RS there is
JS> that huge black stripe across the top that contains info about your
JS> laptime, position, etc. Yet nobody complained that a large area of the
JS> gameplay graphics were obscured by it. Strange...

I can't remember seeing this in F1RS (cockpitview enabled) !?

Also, man mailt sich...

.\\atze [ FmMW2109 - FmMB2139 ]

*home* : http://www.home4u.de/buesing/

by **Byron Forbe** » Sun, 08 Nov 1998 04:00:00

I remember the first time I saw a post about the letterbox view. At the time I said to
myself "Shit, it has too!" Point being that although I realized this subconsciously, I was
to engrossed with the sim to actually take any notice. Maybe this is where your
difficulties stem from Lawrence. Sounds like your looking at the black part of the screen
and listening for the bird noises!

Focus Lawrence! Focus! :)

> Hi rrevved (afraid to use your real name?)

> >On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:10:14 -0000,

> >>God forbid anyone should criticise GPL - it can't possibly have even the
> >>smallest flaw!

> >>For goodness' sake - GPL is good but it has many faults. I suppose it must
> >>be me but I'm amazed by all the ***on this NG about GPL. Just a few
> points
> >>to consider:

> >>The AI suck big time because they drive like psychopaths.

> >I might. The AI don't.

> I've lost count of the number of times I've been shunted off the track from
> behind, even in the warm-ups when braking at the last possible moment in the
> cars with the best brakes (e.g. Parabolica at Monza). This inevitably leads
> to the culprit being put out of the race - hardly realistic IMO.

> >>The graphics are good but only fill some of the screen

> >Love the graphics!

> I prefer programmes which use the whole screen - it gives more atmosphere
> IMO.

> >>The cars are much too difficult to drive and this is very unrealistic

> >Who sez?

> I did, Do you disagree?

> >>The sound is not at all convincing

> >Guess you haven't heard that Maranello monster..........

> I have driven the Ferrari in GPL - which I admit has a nice engine note. I
> wasn't just referring to the engine sounds though. All of the other sounds
> are far too quiet IMO and there's no option to change the sound levels as
> there is in most other racing sims. I think that an opportunity was missed
> to add a lot of interesting sounds and thereby improve the atmosphere.

> >Admit it, its just too difficult for you to be bothered.

> In many ways I agree. If this is supposed to offend me then it doesn't,
> since I don't have an inferiority complex. It's true that I'm not going to
> devote all my spare time to driving GPL. If it had a more realistic
> difficulty level then I think it would be more rewarding. This is plain
> common sense.

> I like GPL a lot but it's not perfect. Do you recognise any faults with GPL
> at all?

--
Byron Forbes
Captain of Team Lightning Bolt

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~HOSHUMUNGUS

and

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

by **Byron Forbe** » Sun, 08 Nov 1998 04:00:00

> God forbid anyone should criticise GPL - it can't possibly have even the
> smallest flaw!

> For goodness' sake - GPL is good but it has many faults. I suppose it must
> be me but I'm amazed by all the ***on this NG about GPL. Just a few points
> to consider:

> The AI suck big time because they drive like psychopaths.

Nonsense!

Whoopy doo! Why have the cpu/graphics card bogged down putting up worthless graphics?

Nonesense.

Utter nonsense!

--
Byron Forbes
Captain of Team Lightning Bolt

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~HOSHUMUNGUS

and

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

by **Byron Forbe** » Sun, 08 Nov 1998 04:00:00

What brake bias are you using?

> No, I'm not using any aids - but I am using the GP car. Perhaps I should
> spend more time in the trainer.... I'm not denying that, given hours of
> practise, it is possible to improve braking technique to reduce the number
> of times the AI outbrake you. This just supports my argument that I would
> prefer an option to reduce the opponents' skill level in order to give a
> more rewarding drive for 'learners'.

--
Byron Forbes
Captain of Team Lightning Bolt

http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS

and

http://www.frontiernet.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

by **Byron Forbe** » Sun, 08 Nov 1998 04:00:00

This is true until, unlike real drivers, we have done a zillion laps, spending mere
seconds making setup adjustments that take hours in real life, and know the sim and it's
tracks like the back of our hand. Not to mention the fact that we need not fear for our
lives, just our results! The ball may be in the real drivers court in the beginning, but
it's soon back in ours in a very big way IMO. Give me 100% accurate physics any day! :))
While we're on this subject, while a real race team and driver are loading up semi
trailers with all their gear, transporting it, unloading it, assembling it, setting car
up, refueling, etc, etc, etc.......... then packing up, going home, unloading, testing,
etc, etc, etc....... we simmers are out on the track doing laps. We pull into the pits and
change motors, gearboxs, differentials, springs, shocks, etc, etc, etc.... in about 30
seconds flat. Come to think of it, I think the ball is always in our court. By the time
these guys get on the track we have already put down lap times that they will simply never
achieve! :)

> In a real car there is additional feedback which lets you know when you are
> near the limit. Indeed - I think it says as much in Steve Smith's guide. I
> agree with his view that GPL will therefore seem more difficult to drive
> than a real car. This is my point - my perception is that the car is more
> difficult to drive around a circuit than a real car.

--
Byron Forbes
Captain of Team Lightning Bolt

http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS

and

http://www.frontiernet.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

by **Lawrence Edward** » Sun, 08 Nov 1998 04:00:00

The default one. Would you recommend that I try moving it forwards or
rearwards (in the Eagle or Lotus) ?

>What brake bias are you using?

>> No, I'm not using any aids - but I am using the GP car. Perhaps I should
>> spend more time in the trainer.... I'm not denying that, given hours of
>> practise, it is possible to improve braking technique to reduce the
number
>> of times the AI outbrake you. This just supports my argument that I would
>> prefer an option to reduce the opponents' skill level in order to give a
>> more rewarding drive for 'learners'.

>--
> Byron Forbes
> Captain of Team Lightning Bolt

> http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS

> and

> http://www.frontiernet.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

by **Lawrence Edward** » Sun, 08 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Hi Trips

I shouldn't have said that they put themselves out of the race, I meant to
say that they drive in an aggressive manner and are prepared to take risks
that result in accidents which would put them out of the race. I think it
would be an improvement if the AI were less aggressive during the practise
session.

Of course, GPL quite rightly makes several compromises, giving up realism in
exchange for making the game "fun". For example, it's hardly "realistic"
that you can reset with Shift R or return tho the pits with Escape. I would
like to see a *few* more compromises in this direction.

>> I also don't think anyone has addressed the point that it is realistic
for
>> the AI to put themselves out of the race during practise sessions with
>> suicidal driving. Surely you agree that this is not 'realistic'?

>I haven't seen this sort of behavior from the AI yet... You're seeing
>them crash out during practice sessions?

>Trips