rec.autos.simulators

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

Rafe McAulif

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by Rafe McAulif » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 21:56:15



From my previous post...

Also, the Handford device concept could be used in F1 to upset the
aero somewhat. They don't want to lose their advertising space, so
this could be a key ;)I wouldn't think it practical to go to the
lengths that CART have, but the idea has some merit.

They could perhaps have some modified version to put to their own use,
perhaps they could direct the airflow from such a device to aid a
following car, as well as reducing drag. Thus, it would actually be an
advantage to be following another car.

Rafe Mc

Dave Henri

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by Dave Henri » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:53:17

  Now that is an interesting concept Rafe.  Might have to ponder that
some...how best to help the following car?
sending the air up takes away downforce,  flowing it down would send
disturbed air over the wings..damn...I wonder if we can get Greger and his
Physics Nazis to work on that....cool idea..
dave henrie



> >  because a sponsor ain't gonna pay gazzillions of $$ to be squished onto
> >***y tiny winglets...
> >dave henrie

> From my previous post...

> Also, the Handford device concept could be used in F1 to upset the
> aero somewhat. They don't want to lose their advertising space, so
> this could be a key ;)I wouldn't think it practical to go to the
> lengths that CART have, but the idea has some merit.

> They could perhaps have some modified version to put to their own use,
> perhaps they could direct the airflow from such a device to aid a
> following car, as well as reducing drag. Thus, it would actually be an
> advantage to be following another car.

> Rafe Mc

Dave Henri

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by Dave Henri » Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:55:29

  Remember Nigel Mansell back in the Ferrari days?...(at least I hope it was
a Ferrari...can't trust my memory any more)
He was trying to pass somebody...most likely Hungary and lost it..spun off
onto the grass did one complete circle and the slid back onto the pavement.
the tires gripped like magic and off he went, like he had never left the
racing surface at all.
dave henrie

> The other great thing about wide wheels is that once you lose it the
> wide wheels provide far more drag to aid in stopping the mess from
> getting worse.

> PAPA DOC

> >We all want a return to slick tyres, but has anyone put a
> >consideration into WIDENING the tyres? Ala the late 70's. Two major
> >points to consider.

> >First, the wider tyres would give greater mechanical grip, and a
> >greater percentage of mech. to aero. So obviously a loss of downforce
> >will have a smaller impact.

> >Secondly, and mostly overlooked, is the aero DISadvantage of wide
> >tyres. They make up a huge part of the total drag of an F1 car, and
> >thus the top speed attainable will be reduced. So it will actually aid
> >safety in one sense. Also, more drag means a greater tow to a
> >following driver, and hopefully better overtaking chances. Of course
> >the following driver will face a greater problem in faster corners,
> >but will have an advantage on the straights, and the balance would
> >hopefully lead to overtaking opportunities.

> >I personnally believe that the major advances in aero efficiency have
> >reduced the tow to such an extent that it is of minimal benefit. The
> >following driver has no advantage over the leader, and therefore no
> >chance.

> >Another take on this would be to continue with grooved tyres, but
> >still widen them. Perhaps to maintain the contact patch that existed
> >with slicks before, but with a bigger aero penalty.

> >Also, the Handford device concept could be used in F1 to upset the
> >aero somewhat. They don't want to lose their advertising space, so
> >this could be a key ;)I wouldn't think it practical to go to the
> >lengths that CART have, but the idea has some merit.

> >Rafe Mc

> >On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:23:54 -0400, "Klinn"

> >>I agree with both your suggestions - no wings, no pit stops - and I also
> >>wish F1 would go back to slicks, a wider track if that's beneficial,
etc.
> >>More mechanical grip, less aerodynamic grip maybe = more chances for
> >>overtaking???

> >>Probably this would end up with slower cornering speeds (less aero
loading)
> >>and higher straightaway speeds (less aero drag), making the braking zone
> >>longer and more critical.

> >>Just my 0.05 Cdn
> >>                                    ...Klinn



> >>> I think he's right, F1 is getting boring.

> >>> Personally I'd ban wings as I think they make it more difficult to
> >>> overtake because you can't get too close to the guy in front without
> >>> messing up your own air flow.
> >>> I would also ban pit-stops, as it just confuses the issue and takes
> >>> away empahsis from the driver and puts (some) of it on pit-stop
> >>> strategy and how quickly the mechanics can change wheels.

> >>> John

> Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
> Flanker Target
> Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy
> Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at
> www.papadoc.net

David Kar

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by David Kar » Tue, 14 Aug 2001 04:51:53

That would be Imola, 1990.

cheers!
David


Morton Chalo

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by Morton Chalo » Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:24:18


>There are three kinds of Yugo: Yugo for USA market, Yugo for exYugoslavia
>and Yugo Florida.

I have learned something -- thanks Dino!

Without realizing it, I was referring to the Yugo for USA as the
original poster has a University of Michigan URL.

Now I have to ask -- what's the difference with the Florida Yugos?

And thank you NATO. :)

--Morton


Rafe McAulif

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by Rafe McAulif » Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:37:51

I know that the FIA did a study some years back with two F1 cars in a
wind tunnel, studying the disturbed air over the second car, and how
closely it could follow. The answer was - not too ***y close! But
they didn't do any investigation into how to amend this, it was not a
very detailed study. I think they need to look into this a bit, do
some detailed research. That's if they ever want to address this
problem.

Rafe Mc



>  Now that is an interesting concept Rafe.  Might have to ponder that
>some...how best to help the following car?
>sending the air up takes away downforce,  flowing it down would send
>disturbed air over the wings..damn...I wonder if we can get Greger and his
>Physics Nazis to work on that....cool idea..
>dave henrie




>> >  because a sponsor ain't gonna pay gazzillions of $$ to be squished onto
>> >***y tiny winglets...
>> >dave henrie

>> From my previous post...

>> Also, the Handford device concept could be used in F1 to upset the
>> aero somewhat. They don't want to lose their advertising space, so
>> this could be a key ;)I wouldn't think it practical to go to the
>> lengths that CART have, but the idea has some merit.

>> They could perhaps have some modified version to put to their own use,
>> perhaps they could direct the airflow from such a device to aid a
>> following car, as well as reducing drag. Thus, it would actually be an
>> advantage to be following another car.

>> Rafe Mc

Rafe McAulif

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by Rafe McAulif » Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:38:48

Pretty good save that one, mighty impressive.

Rafe Mc

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 14:51:53 -0500, "David Karr"


>That would be Imola, 1990.

>cheers!
>David



>>   Remember Nigel Mansell back in the Ferrari days?...(at least I hope it
>was
>> a Ferrari...can't trust my memory any more)
>> He was trying to pass somebody...most likely Hungary and lost it..spun off
>> onto the grass did one complete circle and the slid back onto the
>pavement.
>> the tires gripped like magic and off he went, like he had never left the
>> racing surface at all.
>> dave henrie

Kai Fulle

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by Kai Fulle » Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:56:43

The way I see it is that racing can be done in 2 forms:

Nascar \ Speedvision challenge style: Where the cars are either basically
the same, or are balanced in order to create competitive balance.

Prototype style: Corporations are allowed to invest all the money the want
into a very lose formula, so it's who can make the best car under these
loose set of rules.

It seems to me that the problem with modern F1 is that it's neither of the
two, somewhere in the middle. While companies are allowed to develop their
own cars, there are so many rules now that teams can't develop cars that are
exciting to watch, they can only develop a slightly better version of the
other guys car.

Le Mans cars are much more exciting for me to watch since there is more
variety in how the cars can be developed. This seems to have given Audi an
advtage by spending more, but at least it's fun to watch a 2-5 audi's race
each other. PLUS look who won at Portland! Panoz won in a race that was more
exciting than anything I've seen in F1 lately.


mark jeangerar

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by mark jeangerar » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 03:04:22

That was Magny Cours from 94-97 probably. I mean, I know it was France, just
not when. I remember watching it in my hotel room in Las Vegas. I'm pretty
sure I don't have it on tape because I was not home. But yes, it was quite a
spectacle and Alesi was king of the day. His performance was incredible.
Keep in mind that it was dry before he started setting fast lap as he was on
slicks. Craaaaazy....

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark



> >"Jean Alesi has just set fastest lap of the race for the second lap in a
> >row. No mean feat considering that he is the only car on slicks, in a
> >torrential downpour, and must be traveling at least 1/4 mile further than
> >anyone else to complete a lap."
> >(Bob Varsha)

> Wow - what race was THAT???  Canada, maybe?  Sounds like a good one to
have on
> tape...

> Eldred
> --
> Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

> Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

mark jeangerar

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by mark jeangerar » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 03:07:24

Whoa, Dave! Sorry you had to type all that for nothing. But apparently your
newsreader left out the lines, "Modern F1 is not much better. But reduce the
commercialism and drivers aids and racing line obstacles and you'll have
something. " from my post. Those two lines change the entire meaning of what
I had to say. So your post, while well written, does not apply to the
subject. Might wanna check into that.

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark

Marty U'Re

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by Marty U'Re » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 05:23:02


> ><yawn>

> I think that's the point everyone's been trying to make, Dave :-)

lol.....
Dave Henri

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by Dave Henri » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:20:24

"mark jeangerard"
(snippers)
Those two lines change the entire meaning of what
   That has never been an impediment for me....on topic, off topic, they are
all the same  :)
dave henrie

> --

> "Racing! - Science for the action minded."

> mark


> > "mark jeangerard"
> > <They're not just
> > > there to win today's race, but also to fulfill a higher purpose,
> whatever
> > > that may be. (Design, history, art.) That is the payoff to me.
> >   For a higher purpose?  Try for money...to spend somebody else's and
make
> > as much of your own as you can.  There is an art to that I guess.
> >   So by compilling several season's of F1, you find it infinately more
> > satisfying than a single event of Nascar or Cart.  You seem to like the
> > underdog...well there is always Tora Takagi, King Hiro, Memo
> > Gidley....Certainly the effort put forth by a Penske team is on par with
> > that of most F1 squads...Having been an F1 owner in the past...He
probably
> > has some idea of the comittment needed.  I find F1 facinating, but if
> there
> > is a Cart race on at the same time,  I watch the cart race and tape the
> f1.
> > different strokes...enjoy.
> > dave henrie

> > That is what
> > > makes it all worthwhile. When Michael and Ferrari brought home the
> > > championship, they did so in a *sport* that I hadn't watched in years.
A
> > > dead sport to me. And the elation I felt was unsurpassed. All those
> years
> > > the Prancing Horse ran to no avail, with great drivers too, and
> finally...
> > > sweet confirmation. Focus, determination, sweat... to rise above the
> rest
> > of
> > > the world in pursuit of your art. When Prost passes McLaren... *that*
> will
> > > be exciting.

> > > Sure, the Nascar and Indy guys got a little of that, but on a much
lower
> > > level. The classification provides for that, and we get 400 passes a
> > *race*
> > > in turn. Meaningless.

> > > The worlds fastest drivers, in the worlds fastest cars, on the worlds
> > > fastest race tracks. That doesn't sound so bad, does it? It seemed to
> work
> > > before. At least, it did for me. I miss Formula 1.

> > > --
> > > "Jean Alesi has just set fastest lap of the race for the second lap in
a
> > > row. No mean feat considering that he is the only car on slicks, in a
> > > torrential downpour, and must be traveling at least 1/4 mile further
> than
> > > anyone else to complete a lap."
> > > (Bob Varsha)

> > > mark

mark jeangerar

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by mark jeangerar » Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:17:27


Sorry, my mistake.

LOL

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark

Terry kan

(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

by Terry kan » Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:31:25

From Autosport:-

Bobby Rahal has been sacked from his position as Chief Executive Officer
of Jaguar Racing Formula 1 team after just nine months on the job
following yesterday's (Thursday's) crunch meeting with the Big Cat
bosses Niki Lauda and Wolfgang Reitzle.

Rahal was given the reins of the Jaguar team last December, but in under
a year relations are thought to have broken down between the erstwhile
CEO and Jaguar overlord Niki Lauda, who was brought in to chair Ford's
Premier Performance Division, which includes Jaguar Racing, earlier this
year.

The top heavy structure is believed to have caused confusion at the
Milton Keynes-based team and following a protracted meeting in London on
Thursday, between the management duo and Jaguar Cars chairman Reitzle,
Rahal has been shown the door and will be replaced by Lauda.

Rahal has never outwardly criticised Lauda, despite rumoured
disagreements over such matters as Arrows' Cosworth engine deal for next
year and more recently Rahal's offer to sell number one driver Eddie
Irvine to Jordan. According to the American, who is to return to his
Champ Car team in the US, the split was entirely amicable.

"It has been a tremendous privilege to play a key role in the formative
stages of the development of Jaguar Racing," said Rahal. "I have truly
enjoyed the time I have spent with the many talented people at Jaguar
Racing and I wish them all the best for the future.

"I would stress this is an entirely amicable parting and I look forward
to continuing my other business relationships with Ford in the US."

Lauda was brought in as chairman of the PPD in February to oversee
Cosworth, Pi Research and Jaguar Racing and also to 'smooth the way' for
Rahal at a higher management level. However, the three time world
champion has made quite an impact on the team and will be taking over
Rahal's former duties with immediate effect.

"I would like to thank Bobby for the contribution he has made to Jaguar
Racing," said Lauda. "Following this development my focus will now be
100 percent on the Jaguar F1 project."




> >    That has never been an impediment for me....on topic, off topic, they
> are
> > all the same  :)
> > dave henrie

> Sorry, my mistake.

> LOL

> --

> "Racing! - Science for the action minded."

> mark


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