rec.autos.simulators

I'm still learning to setup and drive various tracks.  I'm comfortable
turning off driving aids at Super Speedways.
Most other tracks I need to use "Stability Control" to keep from wrecking.
I'm wondering if others find this to be true.
I'm guessing that *** on-line racers never use driving aids.  Since
driving aids seem to slow you down it seems obvious that one would want to
get to a point where they can be turned off. Are there some tracks where you
just have to use them?

So far my on-line racing has been limited to racing a couple friends. As I
improve I'd like to join a league.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on driving aids. I'm attempting to gauge
my progress as I'm learning to drive NR2003.

-P

My opinion, turn them off.  I don't use them at all.  You will learn more
about settings up the cars/trucks if you drive without them.  Find a setup
guide online and read it.  Work with the game to change from loose to stable
or tight to stable.  You will be better in the long run if you don't use
them at all, starting now!

Shock

I drive roadies mostly, so my experience may be different from yours.
I was sure for so long that I'd wreck if I turned off traction control
(I had managed to wean myself off the others-never used stability
and stopped using the ABS when I noticed that the braking
distance was much greater-esp. noticeable in Trans Am) that I
never did.  One day there was a TA Ring race w/ no-aids that I
joined, and I was forced to go without TC.  Found out that it
wasn't so bad at all.

Basically the human brain's "traction control" is much superior,
and in essence it's very simple: when the car is sideways, be
careful punching the accelerator: roll into it smoothly.  Took
me a long while to learn how to do that, but it sure made the
game that much deeper & more enjoyable.  The TC in the game
tends to be very conservative and will rob you of power when
accelerating (you'll even lose a little when going straight).

As for stability control, with experience you'll learn how to make
all sorts of minute split-second adjustments with the wheel to
avoid spins (in my case depending on what the FF is telling me,
tho a lot of folks here don't use FF and do just fine).

Now it seems simple but it took a lot of practice (and a lot of
wrecks) to get to that point!

            John DiFool

And no, to answer your question, there are no tracks (that I've
tried) that required me to turn on any of the aids. I did  try some
of the aids when I first drove the TPTCC mod, but quickly realized I
was getting beaten badly by my fellow drivers -- and they made the
car react "funny". I turned them off and have never tried them again.

But it does take a considerable investment in time to be good at
these driving sims. If you and your buddies are just going to get
together for an hour once every couple of weeks, maybe you would like
the game with the aids turned on. It does make things somewhat
easier. [What I have just said will cause the *** sim types to
take up chicken feathers and hot pitch and come in search of my
residence, to run me out of town on a rail.]

--
  Darryl

(My "insight", has be taken with a grain of salt, after all it is *only* my
opinion...)

When you use the aids, and you make/adjust these setups, in essence you are
adjusting the car so that the "COMPUTER" can assist your {possibly bad
habit/erratic controller issues or unawareness or tendencies} instead of you
working on your driving style & setup nuances, to achieve adequate lap
time/speed.

with many aids turned on, to me might as well have a slot car track?
Because the computer overrides your input on how much you turn, brake and
throttle to keep the car "stable".

With aids, I believe (caveat not definite but I think it calculates how far
off the "papyrus's preferred line" you are during a lap to determine how
much
to override driver input say not applying the gas or not applying as much
brakes) What does that mean?  Means 2 things but 3 fold.  Ill try to explain
the essence.

Using Aids:
1. adjustments of setups, with aids on your adjusting the setup so that the
grip and traction calculations that the 'aids' use to decide if gas would
be applied or over ridden.
2. How can you possibly tell if you hit your mark to let off that throttle
or brake, or turn? (you cant, because it just happens for you)
3. Your "Ideal line" around the track is whatever Sierra figured out &
programmed, the line around the track to be!  & Since the CPU will
flawlessly calculate this information, you can run "perfect lap-lines"
without effort, so adjusting the car seems so easy...

If your driving the car without aids, your setup adjustments PLUS altering
your driving habits achieve the lap time/speeds.  Without aids you will find
you are adjusting 3 or more things each trip to the garage to achieve 3 that
are inter-connected, 3 things which lead you to your goal {a fast setup}

+++It is amazing how the fastest "line" around any track, FOR ANY SETUP is
different usually than the next.  So if you don't use aids, you have to find
that line, and the brake points, steering points, and acceleration amounts
at the track.  Tweaking a setup to run the High Groove is easy in non aids
modes, but I doubt you can do it with all aids turned on...

So without aids your having to also adjust YOURSELF to the setup & adjusting
the setup to the following:
1. using the tires & engine & or brakes to steer.
2. drivability, & finding the line
3. tire-wear,  corner & top straight-a-way speed...