There's a fantastic article about GPL's F3's in the "Race Reports"
section of the Zero Gee News. hehe, didn't know Mark had it in him, damn
that's a good one Mark :)
ZGN---> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
--
Slot
www.slottweak.com
Tweaks & Reviews
Perhaps I'm in the minority then? I glad they arn't just underpowered F1s.
Remember, originally the "trainers" were going to be acurate simulations of
F3s and F2s. It didn't work out that way, but having them just be
underpowered F1s would be just horrible in my opinion. I'm dissapointed they
aren't even more like they were intended.
The key factor here is that the lower classes ran different tires, with a
lower cf, just as lower classes do now. People running F3 in real life just
couldn't fit the tire bill the way the F1 teams could. Remember, in those
days F3 racers were people who had mortgaged anything they could to buy a
car, bought used clothes for their kids, ate cold tuna fish out of the can
at race meets while sleeping under their open trailers because that's all
they could afford.
So, the "trainers" in GPL are apparently reduced in power by simple
expediant of rev limiting, and the tires * have a lower cf.*
This is realistic. Realism is why we play GPL, no?
You'll find this mentioned in Steve Smith's original article on F2s.
One of the neat things about the F3s is that they behave much like a modern
FF on street tires would, which is how they race them in Europe. This means
that GPL is actually a MODERN sim for exactly the class of car any of us
could actually dream about buying and racing. So long as we like cold tuna
fish out of the can and the great outdoors.
Here's a tip for you though, even though the F3s can't pull the same gs in
a turn that an F1 can, they DO have considerably less power. If you stop
thinking about them as slow F1s and adapt to what they really are you'll
find that you can get on the gas MUCH earlier in medium to fast corners with
FAR less chance of spinning the rear wheels.
And, of course, the REAL trick to driving F3s is managing inertia, not
power.
--
Slot
Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com
> > A very nice article. I'm surprised that nobody ever mentions the fact
that
> > the F3s don't handle as well as the other classes either. They're more
> > slippery. I don't think I'm the only one who has noticed this. The
> > assumption would be that they are just under powered F1s. (I wish they
> > were.) But if you check your speed through some tight corners in an F1
and
> > then with an F3, you'll
> > see you can't match it. Nor can you get back on the gas as quickly
without
> > spinning out.
> Perhaps I'm in the minority then? I glad they arn't just underpowered F1s.
> Remember, originally the "trainers" were going to be acurate simulations
of
> F3s and F2s. It didn't work out that way, but having them just be
> underpowered F1s would be just horrible in my opinion. I'm dissapointed
they
> aren't even more like they were intended.
> The key factor here is that the lower classes ran different tires, with a
> lower cf, just as lower classes do now. People running F3 in real life
just
> couldn't fit the tire bill the way the F1 teams could. Remember, in those
> days F3 racers were people who had mortgaged anything they could to buy a
> car, bought used clothes for their kids, ate cold tuna fish out of the can
> at race meets while sleeping under their open trailers because that's all
> they could afford.
> So, the "trainers" in GPL are apparently reduced in power by simple
> expediant of rev limiting, and the tires * have a lower cf.*
> This is realistic. Realism is why we play GPL, no?
> You'll find this mentioned in Steve Smith's original article on F2s.
> One of the neat things about the F3s is that they behave much like a
modern
> FF on street tires would, which is how they race them in Europe. This
means
> that GPL is actually a MODERN sim for exactly the class of car any of us
> could actually dream about buying and racing. So long as we like cold tuna
> fish out of the can and the great outdoors.
> Here's a tip for you though, even though the F3s can't pull the same gs
in
> a turn that an F1 can, they DO have considerably less power. If you stop
> thinking about them as slow F1s and adapt to what they really are you'll
> find that you can get on the gas MUCH earlier in medium to fast corners
with
> FAR less chance of spinning the rear wheels.
> And, of course, the REAL trick to driving F3s is managing inertia, not
> power.
As far as cornering ability, the F3 cars of GPL are not that far off the
rest of the classes with the proper setup. Your comment about conservation
of energy is spot on. It is possible to finish above F2 cars in an F3
providing they make enough mistakes and the F3 makes none..... Ahhhh the
challenge to be perfect.... The Ring is a good example. Straight speed an f3
will not have, but with the proper line, it is possible to close on even an
F1 car through certain parts of the track.... There is nothing more fun that
worrying an F2 or F1 car with an F3!!
--
Ken
http://BovineRacing.com
[snip]
Speedvision recently broadcast a race from the Goodwood Festival of Speed in
which 1967 era F1 and F3 cars were racing against one another. One thing
that really caught my attention was how well some of the F3 cars were doing,
mixing it up with the best of the F1 runners. In fact, I think one of the
F3 cars got a podium finish.
S.
If you are referring to the 1.5 litre F1 Formula you have your facts
somewhat awry.
The chassis were different and the engines were different (I've yet to see a
F3 car with a 1.5 litre Coventry Climax or Ferrari V8!). Even the wheels and
tyres were different. About the only similarity was the fact that they had
4 wheels and one seat.
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------
> As far as cornering ability, the F3 cars of GPL are not that far off the
> rest of the classes with the proper setup. Your comment about conservation
> of energy is spot on. It is possible to finish above F2 cars in an F3
> providing they make enough mistakes and the F3 makes none..... Ahhhh the
> challenge to be perfect.... The Ring is a good example. Straight speed an
f3
> will not have, but with the proper line, it is possible to close on even
an
> F1 car through certain parts of the track.... There is nothing more fun
that
> worrying an F2 or F1 car with an F3!!
> --
> Ken
> http://BovineRacing.com
Actually, you would have been closer to the mark if you had said the F2s.
Remember that while the early 60's F1 cars were only 1.5 litres they WERE
GP engines and thus put out in the neighborhood of 200 hp, like the F2s in
GPL. The GPL F3s only put out about 100 hp. Again, just about in the range
of a modern amatuer class formula car.
I think I'm in the minority again, GPL F2 fanatics aside, and thought the
move back to larger capacity cars in F1 was a mistake. I LOVE the "tiddlers"
and they were certainly just as much of a challenge to win in as the 3 litre
cars, maybe more so.
Oh yeah, your comments would also have been more inline if we had been
discussing the 1.5s in the first place. With the small capacity motor F1s
the chassis were more suitable for a wider range of applications, and
frequently essentially the same chassis would be used for FJ right up to F1.
The 3 litre cars broke this. You just couldn't ask an FJ chassis to handle
the size, weight, and power of an F1, and an F1 Chassis based on an FJ
would have been suicidal.
If you can find it pick up copy of Costin and Phipps' " Racing and Sports
Car Chassis Design". Some great stuff in there about these cars.
I'm just old enough to remember these lovely little beasties and I reaquaint
myself with them at vintage meets every chance I get.
I've been looking forward to the release of Skip Barber Racing as well, more
the Barber Dodge "FFs" then the Dodge Pro cars.
Heck, I even love the tiddlers so much I wish someone would do an FV sim.