rec.autos.simulators

Well a little of both is my guess, because if you dont ever notice that the tyre
squealling is giving you that information, your brain will never use it. In a
real race car you never hear tyre squealling, at least not in an openwheeler, so
to have tyre squealling is in that sense not realistic. I've driven an FFord on
the edge and inspite of it's relatively quite engine, I have never heard the
tyres squeal, and believe me I've been sideways in a couple of corners :o),
loving it of course :o).

Give me the benefit of doubt and spend two hours in GP2 knowing that the tyre
squeal is high volume when you lost traction, medium volym when you're on the
edge and low volume when you're not yet on the edge, and between those states it
either increases or decreases. In GP2 you must have tyre squealling during
braking and tyre squealling during cornering to make the fastest lap, that's the
only reason you hear tyre squealling in GP2, cause if it were realistic, you
wouldn't hear it at all, only the screaming V10's :o).

GPL is the first time for Papy to simulate locking up the brakes, and the
solution they provided were that you have to remember the foot angle. I dont
find that realistic at all. It makes it for example very hard to compensate for
worn tyres, cold tyres or hot tyres. Then you have to guess the different angles
of your foot. When you're braking during elevation shifts you have to memorize
all the different angles during that braking. In real life you feel how much
you're braking, you're not guessing the foot angle or the foot pressure.

/Christer
--
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone
has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).

hi Christer:)

I've noticed you bringing up this point a few thousand times over the
last few weeks (ok, not *quite* that many times!) :) I only just
got GPL earlier this week, and have spent a few days getting a handle
on the new handling of the Lotus (it's so much better than the demo),
and now i'm beginning to find that I don't agree with your opinion
on this. I am finding that i can drive by feel much better now,
paying attention to what the car is doing in response to my input
rather than paying any attention to tyre squeal. When i power out
of corners, i use *just* enough throttle for the rear to begin coming
around but not enough to actually make any tyre noises. When I brake
i just brake at a level where the car isn't squirming at all and that's
pretty good braking. cornering i just go for feel of under or oversteer,
no need to listen to tyre squeal, and i'm not at all far off the pace
of the tracks i so far know reasonably well. and this form of driving
does promote care and caution and patience and makes my consistancy
go *way* up! In a race i've heard people complain about cold tyres...
i actually don't really even notice! i just drive the car as it is by
feel and run away by like 4 seconds on the first lap of the few online
races i've had where i got a clear start to the lead.

of course, this is just my view of it:) For some people there is
no issue here. for others there is. human beings are weird creatures:)

I don't think this helped in any way! but never mind:)
Grant.

ok just did some driving at Monza and decided to see if i really
did listen to tyre squeal while driving after all - and i do:) i
just do it mostly subconsciously. i get best cornering, braking, etc
when i am only *just* hearing the slightest bit of squeal.
still trying to figure out good braking methods and turn in techniques,
especially for the Lesmos. the car handles much better and is much more
drivable than in the demo, but i did do a particularly clean 1:28.61
during testing. except for one minor mistake at the first lesmo i
pretty much drove just the sort of really clean realistic lap that
was it David Fisher? was bemoaning a lack of amongst fast human
drivers:)

ok enough spouting. i'll shut up now!

What the hell does this have to do with the
Trans-Am sim?

Hi Grant :o)

Oh, oh... :o). I've always found your posts inspiring and educational to read
and because of that I will give Papys way of simulating g-forces a second
thought :o).

Out of corner I have no trouble either, except when I'm on my way out of
Parabolica and know that I have a good time coming :o).

This could just be a setup question, cause I've slowly went into lock ups
without the car ever squirming???

I really have no trouble the first lap either, on the contrary I'm amazed how
good the brakes work with cold tyres???

I will reevaluate my opinion, I promise :o)

/Christer
--
http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone
has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).

That's a very fast time, Grant, send it to Jean Claudes fastlap board -
http://www.racesimcentral.net/*t, you're going faster than
me :o).

/Christer, a slow learner... I hope :o)

--
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone
has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).

Large, of course!

Ouch!  Funny thing, that's what happened to mine!  Right after I swapped in
a top-loader 4 speed and had the body primed and ready for paint :o(

iron!

I don't necessarily have anything against the cars, it's mainly the "Chevy
Rules" mentality here in the states the gets me.  'Course, I'd give my left
nut for a '67 Corvette 427 convertible.  Then again, don't even get me
started about 427 Cobras...

As Tim Taylor would say, "Argh argh argh!"  Jeez, gives me goose bumpgs just
reading about it.

Thanks for the tingles!
Todd

thanks :) i reckon exchanging views is a cool thing, i might have
ideas that help others drive better, or i might read something that
helps me improve too.
for me it's just that in the week i've been driving the full GPL my
feel of the car has improved to the point where i can genuinely
just do what i want with it. drive fast but carefully and consistantly
in a race mode, or if i'm trying to keep up with someone like George
Sandman i find i can actually start pushing a bit harder - driving
on the ragged edge we could say, with the knowledge that if i overcook
it slightly anywhere i still have enough spare to just back off to
keep under control. this is the first sim where i've found that "edge"
so well:) hmm, abbreviate that whole paragraph a bit more: the trick
is to really learn the limits of your car control.
ok, now i can't quite figure out what the point was to that paragraph!

ah, i have that problem too ;) but i am getting better at controlling
myself. it may help from doing some online races - if i'm in a good
position in a race against other fast or faster drivers, i get really
nervous and i'm really fighting to not make mistakes from being all
shakey:) I almost swear i can hear the engine pitch vibrating in time
to my foot being shakey on the accelerator! that's a good way to
learn to keep your car under control under pressure, for sure!:)

hmm. maybe it is setup and/or braking technique. i downshift very
early and use a lot of engine braking to help slow down when in
straight line braking zones. this makes the rear of the car a little
squirmey when braking real hard:) i have to be very alert to what
my left foot is doing, if i don't react fast enough the back comes
around.
sometimes i get into the habit of predicting how much braking to use
instead - but after a few laps i find that i'm no longer pushing
the brake pedal far enough and fall off a turn :(

hehe:) yeah i think the car handles better than people make out on
cold tyres - the trick is to drive by feel rather than memorising
certain speeds and turning patterns for a track.

you don't need to:) just keep on working on car control and see what
happens. even if you still think there's something lacking, at least
you'll improve, still:) the key point is that the sim's the most fun
thing to do since sex was invented.

cheerio,
Grant.

There have been some good points here about Ford vs. Chevy, and I too
fall into the "if it's a good enough car I don't care who built it"
category.     But generally speaking, I'm a Mustang fan, which is
handy, since I'll be doing data acquistion for the Autocon Engineering
team in next year's Trans Am series.  

But as far as that sim goes, I'll be driving the #42 AAR Baracuda.
Dan Gurney for President!