rec.autos.simulators

by **Doug** » Fri, 14 Jan 2005 07:01:53

I have been out of sim racing for several years, following an ***ion to
GPL and on-line racing :-). I'd sort of like to give things a try again,
especially since my PC is about 5x faster than what I had back then, but I
am not sure what is available these days for a good wheel & pedal setup. I
still have my old TSW stuff, but what I had was an early model that used a
standard joystick port (which I guess no PC has anymore). I don't really
want to go that high-end again either since this will probably be a
short-time activity, but I don't want the el-cheapo stuff either.

So what is a good setup for GP-type driving sims? Logitech? Something with
force feedback? I need some pointers to the places with the latest scoop.
Thanks.

Doug G
Former Eagle F2 driver, MARA (Middle-Aged Racers Assoc.)

by **mjones5** » Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:40:35

i've tried the all the Logi Driving Force Pro for the PS2 is the best PC
wheel too.

by **Uwe Schürkam** » Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:21:13

> I have been out of sim racing for several years, following an ***ion to
> GPL and on-line racing :-). I'd sort of like to give things a try again,
> especially since my PC is about 5x faster than what I had back then, but I
> am not sure what is available these days for a good wheel & pedal setup. I
> still have my old TSW stuff, but what I had was an early model that used a
> standard joystick port (which I guess no PC has anymore). I don't really
> want to go that high-end again either since this will probably be a
> short-time activity, but I don't want the el-cheapo stuff either.

You can upgrade your wheel to USB for around $100 (Thomas conversion
kit) or for around $40 doing it yourself (high-spec pots, Rockfire USB
adapter).

Cheers,

uwe

--
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

by **SkykingUS** » Sat, 15 Jan 2005 03:00:21

I use the Logitech Momo Racing wheel and LOVE IT! You can get it
online now for about $70 and it is a great wheel.

I use it for Nascar Racing 2003 Season, I've used it for Need for speed
games and also Nascar 2004 during the short time I've played that game.

The wheel has great forcefeedback effects, a great *** grip on the
wheel, a separate shifter which can be placed on either side of the
wheel (left or right). 6 buttons, 2 paddle handles, 1 2-way shifter.
I'm telling you, you won't go wrong with this wheel. You'll love it.
The pedals even have a no slip feature if you use it on carpet. ***
feet for floors or plastic mats.

Best Regards,
SkykingUSA

> So what is a good setup for GP-type driving sims? Logitech? Something
with
> force feedback? I need some pointers to the places with the latest
scoop.
> Thanks.

> Doug G
> Former Eagle F2 driver, MARA (Middle-Aged Racers Assoc.)

by **ReductioAdAbsur..** » Sat, 15 Jan 2005 04:10:40

> So what is a good setup for GP-type driving sims? Logitech?
> Something with force feedback? I need some pointers to the
> places with the latest scoop.

It really comes down to the Logitech MOMO Racing or Driving Force Pro
-- they are the best consumer wheels on the market.

They are both well made wheels with optical sensors. The pedals use
pots, and it seems a lot of people run into calibration issues with
them (I haven't), but it also seems those issues are resolvable with
software on the PC.

The MOMO Racing is less expensive. It looks very "F1", with a flat
bottom and thicker grip. It supports 240 degrees of rotation and has
real paddle shifters. I haven't actually used one, but I've heard it's
a great feeling wheel.

The Driving Force Pro is round and supports 900 degrees of rotation.
It's possible to scale this down to whatever value you want, so you can
exactly match the rotation of the in-game wheel. This makes it the
wheel of choice, IMO -- it's simply more versatile than the MOMO
Racing. It also has slightly better build quality, with metal bearing
rack-and-pinion steering, stronger force feedback motors, and more than
twice as many buttons.

DFP cons:
* It doesn't have real shifter paddles -- it has large, wedge
shaped buttons in their place. Not as realistic, but I find
the buttons work quite well and feel good, and they're probably
more durable (I've seen posts from people who broke their MOMO
Racing paddles).

* It's not officially supported on the PC! It's sold as a PS2
wheel. It works perfectly in every game I've tried, but the
fact that the driver doesn't support it directly means the
force feedback is not tuned for it -- it feels great to me, but
I've heard people say the Racing feels better. It also means
that scaling back the rotation require an external utility
(DXTweak) and cost you some precision (fewer 'ticks' per degree
of rotation). The next rev of the driver is supposed to
directly support the wheel, which will take care of these
issues and then some (it will then be the most precise wheel on
the market by far).

I love the DFP. My only gripe for it is that you can feel a slight
'deadzone' in the feedback mechanism (the steering itself has no
deadzone). But this is an issue with all gear driven force feedback
systems, AFAIK.

by **David G Fishe** » Sat, 15 Jan 2005 05:39:04

I now use a MS FF (red grip) and it is an excellent wheel, with very nice
pedals. You can find one on ebay for less than $80.00.

--
David G Fisher

by **Alan L** » Sat, 15 Jan 2005 12:55:56

I usually don't top post (like I even care :) ), but ditto everything what's
his name said. I've used and own both, and I prefer the DFP. It took some
getting used to, and the MOMO is better in some respects. Overall though,
the DFP is more versatile and offers more. Re:pedals, I did have a lot of
problems with the MOMO's until I started using standalones. I briefly tried
the Wingman Team's fix out of curiosity, and it seemed to work great. The
DFP's pedals are still in the box but reportedly are of similar design. As
far as the MOMO's fragile paddles, Logitech added a small stop, presumably
to relieve the pressure on the microswitches. Haven't heard any reports
from owners of the new ones, but the new design does feel a LOT better than
the old.

FYI, if you're really into aesthetics, the DFP can be given a great facelift
(including actual paddles) with parts from www.frex.com/gp. As far as
drivers go, "Tom" from the Wingman Team has been alluding to some fantastic
support in the next set, but the current ones still work great. Honestly,
you really can't go wrong either way.

Alan

by HH » Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:04:44

Send it to Thomas Enterprises. They will go through the entire wheel and
check everything out. They refit it with USB and make sure everything is
calibrated. Well worth the $100 + shipping.

>> I have been out of sim racing for several years, following an ***ion
>> to
>> GPL and on-line racing :-). I'd sort of like to give things a try again,
>> especially since my PC is about 5x faster than what I had back then, but
>> I
>> am not sure what is available these days for a good wheel & pedal setup.
>> I
>> still have my old TSW stuff, but what I had was an early model that used
>> a
>> standard joystick port (which I guess no PC has anymore). I don't really
>> want to go that high-end again either since this will probably be a
>> short-time activity, but I don't want the el-cheapo stuff either.

> You can upgrade your wheel to USB for around $100 (Thomas conversion
> kit) or for around $40 doing it yourself (high-spec pots, Rockfire USB
> adapter).

> Cheers,

> uwe

> --
> GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

by MG » Sun, 16 Jan 2005 00:39:24

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 03:55:56 GMT, "Alan Le"

>I usually don't top post (like I even care :) ), but ditto everything what's
>his name said. I've used and own both, and I prefer the DFP. It took some
>getting used to, and the MOMO is better in some respects. Overall though,
>the DFP is more versatile and offers more. Re:pedals, I did have a lot of
>problems with the MOMO's until I started using standalones. I briefly tried
>the Wingman Team's fix out of curiosity, and it seemed to work great. The
>DFP's pedals are still in the box but reportedly are of similar design. As
>far as the MOMO's fragile paddles, Logitech added a small stop, presumably
>to relieve the pressure on the microswitches. Haven't heard any reports
>from owners of the new ones, but the new design does feel a LOT better than
>the old.

>FYI, if you're really into aesthetics, the DFP can be given a great facelift
>(including actual paddles) with parts from www.frex.com/gp. As far as
>drivers go, "Tom" from the Wingman Team has been alluding to some fantastic
>support in the next set, but the current ones still work great. Honestly,
>you really can't go wrong either way.

>Alan

What about the old Red Logitech MOMO, how does that stack up against
the current MOMO and DFP?

by **Magnulu** » Sun, 16 Jan 2005 03:19:49

I use a Logitech Momo. It is plastic construction but fairly durable (i
finally broke a shifter, thanks to too much rally racing and using a shifter
as a handbrake, so some caution is advised if that's your setup- but I glued
it and it works fine now). The force feedback is potentially quite strong,
and depending on the setting, can slow down the feel of the wheel,
especially when making quick turns drifting around a corner- it makes the
familiar "ripping" sound common to that style of force feedback wheels. The
pedals are also nice too- I put down some green grabby *** and it holds
the pedals down very well on a carpet, and there's plenty of space to rest a
foot on the back of the stand, unlike the Logitech Formula Force (I haven't
tried the Pro version).

If force feedback is not your thing, stick with the TSW and get the
upgrade for USB.

by HH » Wed, 19 Jan 2005 03:54:56

I switched from a TSW2 modified to a Logitech Momo Racing. I was
immediately impressed by the Momo Racing wheel. It is very much an inferior
product to the TSW2. The Momo Racing pedals are not that great, and the
steering is quite rough when compared to the smooth TSW2 shaft. But, I was
immediately faster at most tracks with the Momo Racing wheel in NR2003.

But, I'm sorry I sold the TSW2. I regret not getting the USB upgrade.

rec.autos.simulators

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