rec.autos.simulators

Happy

really?

Why do you doubt a) the ability of the modders and/or the fidelity of their
data/partners in real racing. and, b) the ability of the simracing community
to accurately judge the fidelity of any mod emulating a real life series?
Racing sims gives one a very good idea of what racing is like from the
***pit. Likewise, media coverage, interviews, biografies, literature and
the hard science of vehicle dynamics provide a mental picture of what to
expect. At its best this synergy produces something special, at its worst it
produces CMR4. You part with your money before reading RAS, you takes your
chances.

Yes, luckily some of these people know how to make tracks for rFactor. ;-)

Wrong approach. You keep linking the author to the perceived realism within
the simmer's mind;  that's not how it works. A simulation or a
representation
of a venue is perceived as realistic because it is or isn't, not because of
who
made it.

Codemasters have had all sorts of licences and have been making all sorts of
claims for the CMR and TOCA series, but fact is they haven't made a half
decent simulation since the first incarnation of either series (and that
just because standards were lower then). Experienced simmers see right
through that sort of thing and if the "average simmer" is smart enough to
read RAS or RSC he will be duly informed about what's crud and what's not.

They'd laugh at the graphics, no doubt. -lol

Trouble is GPL does exist, did move the goalposts for what should be
considered a simulation to another continent and did refine the palet of a
generation of simmers. However, I think the responses since ISI got their
act together (people act as if rFactor has suddenly appeared to contend for
simracing's crown, but apart from the multi and the DX9 graphics F12k1 was
almost just as good), the appraisal RBR received and the following LFS has
managed to gather, show the simmer's bias is not towards a certain brand of
sims, but to sims period.

It would be different. rFactor has a vastly superior tyre model and,
contrary to GPL, lift from car bodies is simulated. Crucially, there's also
a couple Belgians involved with making the rFactor mods, so hopefully old
Spa wouldn't contain so many glaring mistakes. <g>

At the moment that looks unlikely as the multi still contains certain sone
league-unfriendly elements, but over time it could take over as the number
one online game. Certainly in view of no sim developer currently holding a
licence to a major motorsport.

And again that false premise: there is no "cult" GPL following. Ok, so Papy
were a bit lucky to nail the learning curve and the effort/reward balance in
the game the way they did, but even right after its release GPL was
acknowledged to be flawed. It's a mistake to think those who still play GPL
are blind to its faults, but, at the moment, there still isn't a league
vehicle as complete, as stable and as well understood for those who don't
fancy driving stock cars and that's the long and short of it.

Jan.
=---

I see absolutely no true momentum for rFactor.  I see the same thing for it
that happened to every previous ISI-based sim :  6 months of pleasure,
plenty of possibilities non-fulfilled, then we'll move to something else.

Its like that girlfriend you know is too-good-to-be-true.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Well, I've driven in plenty of GPL leagues and the only area where I see  
rFactor lagging behind is possibly results reporting a la GPL replay  
analyser but after playing around with the beta of Racecast it should only  
be a matter of time before rFactor is up to speed and even as it stands  
it's still a very league friendly sim.

The main reason rFactor is so appealing for me is that the really fast  
guys drive in a very traditional manner.  In GPL, the fast guys drive in  
such a weird fashion that I'd dread to think what would happen if they  
tried to drive like that in real life.  Mind you, it's not as bad as  
Crammond's GPX games where I nearly fall off my chair laughing whenever I  
look at a world record exploit, ..I mean, lap...but still...

Hanging the rear is the fast way to go though.

Take a look at this description of an old (pre-downforce) racing
technique: http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/art_of_driving.htm, look
at the 4 wheel drift page.

The slip angles for maximum grip is around 4 to 5 degrees for modern
bias play slicks, and may have been even higher for the tires of
the cars used for 1967 F1 racing. This gives the visual appearance
that the car is drifting, but it's just the slip angle the tires
need to corner well.

The main thing about GPL is the amount of steering inputs it takes
to control the car while getting a fast time. Driver induced
understeer is often used when slowing to keep the car from spinning,
while normal counter-steering is used when acceleration out of
a corner. In this video of a Greg Stewart hot lap at Rouen, just
after the 2nd hairpin (a 90 degree turn to the left), there are
two right turns made under power and most of the time the steering
wheel is turned left.

http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/gplrngs.wmv

Ok, I didn't know how far sideways you meant. Regarding the GPL
benchmarks, Kyalami is pretty tough, and it takes quite a while to learn
the ring, although I finally got down to a 8:15.32. Some players have
posted it's taken them several years to go negative on the GPL Rank,
which seems challenging enough to me. I spent about 9 months on and
off doing this.

    Sounds like the world is over the novelty of computer *** and the
internet but there's no doubt the right products will bring them back. I
think a huge step forward would be the policing of all servers in all pickup
races even. Racecast is a step in the right direction but would be a lot
more meaningful with policing and a Rank ladder.

There's like a hundred *quality* road courses for NR2003, why should we
switch when all that there is... is "hope" for the future based only on what
the community will bring to us.  Until that I'll be doing other sims.  If
people wake up and start really showing mod interest in rFactor, people will
flock it. Not the opposite.

There's a reason why GPL was mod'ed that much : passion.   I'm not so sure
the rFactor community is as passionnate as the GPL one, considering it
already lacks the historical values of tracks, cars and drivers that made
people skip work just to race the Lotus one more lap around Spa.  There's no
such thing in rFactor..  NR2003's race on sunday/sim' it the rest of the
week and the tight multiplayer/community tools made the people passionate to
mod it.  So what makes the people passionate for rFactor?  It's all "great
possibilities", only that.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Please, there's more passionate rFactor modders around than there's ever  
been for another sim.  Wake up and smell the coffee.

Only if it has been fresh roasted to just past 2nd crack from green
coffee beans in a popcorn popper, let to sit for 24-48 hours
(ventilated), ground with a burr type grinder, and brewed with 95-98C
filtered water in a French press.

:)

I just spent the weekend reading up on making good coffee. ;)

MRSisson
--
LOAD "GPL",8

SEARCHING FOR GPL
LOADING
READY.
RUN

not wanting to start an arguement :)

I loved gpl.  When it first came out, I used to full season full length
races offline.  did the odd bit of online racing, but found the pickup races
not worth it. (some were good and can remember running against some of the
names here in RAS.)  But my work hours at the time prohibited me from
joining a league.

No disrespect for the people that did marvels with gpl.  But most, not all,
of the mods to gpl, where texture, or skinning if you like.

When referring to "modding" a game, it usually means whole new cars and
physics models, not just tracks.

Yes the gpl community is passionate about what they do.  But theres a
sizable modding community that was gearing up, just waiting for the release
of rFactor.  You've got the Pits getting involved.  ORSM who did the V8
Supercars for f1c, are in the process of making the same mod for rF.  If RSC
is working, have a look at the mod teams there in the rFactor Modding sub
forum.

head over to the Pits.  since the release of Dave Noonan's tools, theres
some old gpl and n2k3 track editors moving on to learning how to work with
rF.  I know a few of those guys.  They're just as passionate about making
tracks for rF as they were for any other sim.

just my 0.02 worth  :)

cheers

steve

Maybe it's an old dog/new tricks thing, but I long for a simpler life and
a single sim... maybe an A1 GP style sim project that frees us from
car/sim/mod choices and allows us to just race again.

Andrew McP... still secretly longing for GPL2 I suppose.