rec.autos.simulators

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

GraDe

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by GraDe » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 02:29:11


A good philosophy!
Co-incidentally this is the reason I like guys like Montoya and Schumacher,
if their on your inside and think they can make it, they'll race you and go
for it! It's racing afterall!
And it's the same reason i don't like the style of someone like DC. "I was
2mm ahead, I owned the corner, I had to right to turn in on him"...etc...
Rubbish!

GraDe

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by GraDe » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 02:31:05


Who said anything about first corners? You have to be sensible then, if
there is free track take it, but if there is a group just stay where you
are.
We are talking about a 1 on 1 battle for a corner here.

Aubre

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by Aubre » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 03:05:38




> > > Once I'm in the corner its mine. The only way he is getting it back is
> > > either by outrunning me on the outside or pushing me off the track.

> > So you're the one causing all the T1 pileups!!!

> > > I have no intention of backing off each time he might want to pass me
> and
> > > get into that turn first. I'm racing.

> > The race goes for n-many laps, not just one corner.  I am sick and tired
> of
> > guys that have to win the race in the first corner.  So many VROC racers
> > know nothing about racecraft: picking your spot, looking for weaknesses,
> > forcing errors, etc.  What you guys need is a NHRA sim, then you can
leave
> > the corners to people who know how to race.

> Who said anything about first corners? You have to be sensible then, if
> there is free track take it, but if there is a group just stay where you
> are.
> We are talking about a 1 on 1 battle for a corner here.

You're forgetting that the guy in front is generally braking *as late and
hard as he possibly can*.  He's already fully committed to the corner.  So
it's impossible for him to back off, and sometimes it's not even possible
for him to make room for you.  So it's the passing car's responsibility to
make sure he brakes early enough that he can back off if he doesn't get a
good run on the other guy.  If everyone has a policy of never backing off,
that's just asking for accidents.  There's only one ideal braking point, and
one apex in most corners.  Can't have two cars in one place at the same
time.

On ovals of course, it's a little different because the leading car can back
off much more easily.

-A

Mike Eppe

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by Mike Eppe » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 03:55:28

Wrong! The "International Sporting Code", Appendix L, Chapter IV, Section 2
is about "Overtaking".  There are clear regulations regarding what a driver
may/may not do during overtaking.  So, yes the ARE rules for overtaking.

Everyone would be better served if you included an "AFAIK" in front of you
statements of pseudo-fact.

Its about physics, plain and simple.  Two cars cannot occupy the same space
at the same time.  Being able to reset your car gives sim racers false
courage.  Change all the VROC servers to Pro damage and see what happens<g>.

And FIA apparently.

--MikeE

Neil Rain

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by Neil Rain » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 04:56:09


Oh come on, when did he last do that?

In the last couple of seasons I reckon Coulthard has made some of the best
(only?) overtaking moves on the track.

Two years ago he did manage to spin out his team-mate with a rather dumb
move, but since then he's been excellent in the overtaking department (if
not everywhere else...).

It all started when he was accused of being "too nice", so he's now making
sure he overtakes whenever he can!

john

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by john » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 05:32:04

If you really are faster , you won't need to run someone else off the road
to get past. I have so much more respect for a driver's skill who can stay
with me without sitting so close that a crash is INEVITABLE , and then walk
past when I slide wide or whatever , or even if they never get past. There's
often some bell-end who forces their way down the inside late braking into
Parabolica etc and then slides across the racing line - you can laugh at
them in a couple of laps 'cos they'll always crash out - because they aren't
really very good drivers when all's said and done.

In answer to the question , if you can SEE the driver alongside , and you
know they're faster than you - it's theirs.


Eldre

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by Eldre » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:23:11



>I didn't tape it so I'll have to wait for a re-airing but I didn't notice
>any contact before Gordon had reached the apron.  That would indicate that
>Gordon gave up the real estate he was entitled to.  Had he kept his lefts
>above the apron, and then Tony came down into him your reasoning would make
>sense.

Re-airing?  When?

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by Eldre » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:23:12



>If im under someone im not backing out, im racing

So you'd rather crash, and take BOTH cars out?  That's not racing, that's
wrecking...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

SimRace

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by SimRace » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:45:54

Fox Sports Net has been re-airing the races during the following week,
typically at 8PM local time. Sometimes Monday Nights sometimes Tuesday
Nights.

edb



"Mike

> Re-airing?  When?

> Eldred
> --
> Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...

Wosc

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by Wosc » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:29:44

So a guy only has to get 1 inch ahead of your back end and it is his corner?
You have to WORK to pass someone, you can't just inch forward and expect to
have the apex.

JB




> > Well, in GPL, you have to be pretty far forward to be seen.  If I can't
> > see you, then I will most likely turn in.  Then YOU have caused the
> > accident IMO.  That's not racing, that's arrogant stupidity.

> > -Tony-


> > > If im under someone im not backing out, im racing

> huh? It's his fault for you not being aware of your surroundings? You'll
> make an F1 driver yet :-)

> If his on your inside you can fight him but you haven't got the right to
> turn in on him.
> (people have a terrible habit of turning very early when defending
> positions, I don't know why, it makes them slower in corners and makes
them
> hit a car to their inside.)

Wosc

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by Wosc » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:27:58

So you feel that if you can get an inch inside of a guy's bumper, then the
corner is yours?  That is total BS.  You must earn that position, you can't
just push your way in.  Sure many people will give you the corner, but you
shouldn't expect it to be given.

JB


David Montan

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by David Montan » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:06:31

Exactly the sort of info I was looking for... thanks a bunch,
David

important......especially

- Show quoted text -

drbo..

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by drbo.. » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:55:18

        When I was racing SCCA we had these discussions all the time.
They were just as conclusive :-).

        There are no written rules.  The defacto rules seem to be:

In CART you can crash all you want provided that you take the racing
line, not a blocking line, and that you do it less frequently than
Paul Tracy.

In SCCA if you crash while overtaking twice in a year in front of the
same Stewrd he'll do something about it.

In F1, you can just take someone out, provided it wins you the
Championship (Schumacher).

In NASCAR you can take one inch of the inside line (Gordon) and if the
other guy comes down (Stewart) that's tough.  You cannot spin someone
out by driving into them from behind, and they'll do something about
it maybe 50% of the time.  If you just***up their corner without
actually spinng them, they'll never take action.

        In all forms of racing, the real enforcer is the Golden Rule.
Do something bad to another driver and everyone will cheer when he
retaliates.   No NASCAR driver wants to see another driver's race
totally ruined because some clown went for fourth place (winning would
be a totally different story).  If Stewart had just kept his cool he
would have had a free shot at Gordon to use when it counted.   And
Gordon would have known it, too, which could also be used by Stewart.
It was just dumb to give that advantage up.

Mike Eppe

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by Mike Eppe » Thu, 29 Mar 2001 00:52:12

That is what I'm talking about... racecraft.  The best drivers are thinking
drivers.

--MikeE

Gerry Aitke

How far alongside for a corner to be yours?

by Gerry Aitke » Thu, 29 Mar 2001 03:10:25


> It's only all common sense and chivalry. That's why I sort of defended
> Rubens in Melbourne. The TV shots showed he tried to back out (broke very
> very hard to stop the car) when he realised he was too far back. Frentzen
> had the idea in his head that if he's ahead, he "owns" the corner, so he
> turned in much too sharply with a car to your inside, Rubens nose was there
> and bam, out goes Heinz. In fairness to Rubens he looked like he tried to
> back out but couldn't completely stop his car at that speed! Frentzen took a
> very tight racing line as if there wasn't a car in sight hoping that if they
> did touch he'd just blame Rubens as "he owned the corner".

IMO you are talking utter rubbish, just my opinion of course.

Gerry


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