rec.autos.simulators

by **BendsMast** » Wed, 04 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Today my pdpi L4 was delivered to my door and I coudn't wait to slot
it in and see how my MSFF wheel would feel. Unfortunately it seems I
haven't done enough reading on the subject, if so I would know that
well, it simply doesn't work with the MSFF wheel. I've read on a
couple of posts here that you can use different pedals through the
pdpi with MSFF, but then I'd have to buy new pedals...
And I've also just found that you can't have force feedback with it
anyway, I am astonished at that.
Considering that FF has made sims (GPL in particular) so much more
enjoyable, it's hard to believe that you can't have a true digital
controller with FF on it, or can you?
Are there any workarounds or anything new on the market on the
subject?
Surely with such a market for FF someone out there must be coming up
with a digital wheel.
Well, better pack my PDPI L4 and send it back!

Mauricio.

by **Neil Rain** » Wed, 04 Aug 1999 04:00:00

> Today my pdpi L4 was delivered to my door and I coudn't wait to slot
> it in and see how my MSFF wheel would feel. Unfortunately it seems I
> haven't done enough reading on the subject, if so I would know that
> well, it simply doesn't work with the MSFF wheel. I've read on a
> couple of posts here that you can use different pedals through the
> pdpi with MSFF, but then I'd have to buy new pedals...
> And I've also just found that you can't have force feedback with it
> anyway, I am astonished at that.
> Considering that FF has made sims (GPL in particular) so much more
> enjoyable, it's hard to believe that you can't have a true digital
> controller with FF on it, or can you?
> Are there any workarounds or anything new on the market on the
> subject?
> Surely with such a market for FF someone out there must be coming up
> with a digital wheel.
> Well, better pack my PDPI L4 and send it back!

The PDPI doesn't work with any wheel that uses a DirectInput
"minidriver", because the minidriver takes over control of the
DirectInput system and doesn't give the PDPI a look-in (according to
PDPI, anyway!).

Clearly it's not designed for use with FF wheels as it simulates an
analogue gameport, but that doesn't necessarily mean it can't be used
for other controls while a FF wheel is in use (but see above for the
minidriver problem).

However, I seem to recall someone saying they were using it to drive a
separate set of pedals in conjunction with a Logitech LWFF wheel - is
this true? (perhaps this doesn't use a minidriver, I don't know).

This is probably relevant to a lot of people as the LWFF pedals have
been criticized in the past, and an obvious solution would be to use
GPL's ability to use pedals from another controller.

Bear in mind that the PDPI is quite old now - it was designed
specifically to deal with the problem of slow analogue gameports, and is
really a stop-gap solution until the world moves over to purely digital
wheels.

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 04 Aug 1999 04:00:00

There's a switch on the L4 (in between the two ports) you have to flip to
use the MSFF. It's the readme, but never mind... I never read those either.

Jan.

by **Mauritz Lindqvis** » Wed, 04 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Yes, flip that switch and if it doesnt work, email the guys over at PDPI
about your problem. Their tech support is very good, and you will get a
reply next day. PDPI is the only computer company I have got any contact
with.

--

/M Lindqvist

> There's a switch on the L4 (in between the two ports) you have to flip to
> use the MSFF. It's the readme, but never mind... I never read those
either.

> Jan.

> ><Snip>

by **Ruud van Ga** » Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:01:59 +0200, "Jan Verschueren"

>There's a switch on the L4 (in between the two ports) you have to flip to
>use the MSFF. It's the readme, but never mind... I never read those either.

Would this make the port a regular gameport?
I mean, it should have MIDI then to have FF (for the MSFF MIDI wheel
at least).
I think the switch would not help in the way that the original poster
wants. It just can't be.
Besides, the MSFF uses 250kOhm resistors instead of 100kOhm, so you
must do something with profiles or something...

Just traded my PDPI for a V2, so I can't tell for sure anymore (and
too lazy to go to pdpi.net).

Ruud van Gaal
MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl
Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

by **Doug Gordo** » Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:00:00

In article

> Today my pdpi L4 was delivered to my door and I coudn't wait to slot
> it in and see how my MSFF wheel would feel. Unfortunately it seems I
> haven't done enough reading on the subject, if so I would know that
> well, it simply doesn't work with the MSFF wheel. >

The MS wheel (and possibly others) achieves FF control by using the
MIDI interface pins on the gameport. Unfortunately, this is not really
a "standard gameport" feature and is generally only found on gameports
that are part of sound cards! Therefore, these types of FF devices will
not work on most dedicated add-on game port cards.

It's kind of ironic that game ports came to be associated with sound
cards in the first place. The main use for sound cards in the "old
days" was strictly for playing games, so that's probably how it came
about. As the sound cards became more sophisticated, they started
adding things like MIDI functionality and then decided to use some of
the unused pins in the gameport connector to connect MIDI devices. This
then became sort of an ad-hoc standard and now some FF device mfrs have
started building devices that only work if you have one of these
gameport/MIDI-port combo devices!

-- Doug

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

by **BendsMast** » Fri, 06 Aug 1999 04:00:00

>On Tue, 03 Aug 1999 20:08:54 GMT, "Mauritz Lindqvist"

>>Yes, flip that switch and if it doesnt work, email the guys over at PDPI
>>about your problem. Their tech support is very good, and you will get a
>>reply next day. PDPI is the only computer company I have got any contact
>>with.

>Flipping that switch won['t help with a MSFF wheel. It needs the MIDI
>channels from a soundcard to work, and unless it's plugged in to a
>soundcard, it's no go.

>Trips

You're absolutely right. I did read about it in fact but I still
fiddled with the PDPI tonight and it is definitely a no go.
I'll be sending it back tomorrow. What a shame though.
But I must say on the PDPI L4 web page and on the whole site itsef
there is no mention of the MSFF wheel, they say any device which uses
the standard game port interface in a non-standard way will not be
compatible with the L4. But some of us don't the MSFF wheel fits into
that category, I guess you should say one should first check for
compatibility before buying any PC card, but I still feel they should
at least mention whether their product is compatible with the most
popular steering wheels on the market.
All in all it's been a big disappointment for me this PDPI business.
Enough said.
Cheers

Mauricio.

by JD » Fri, 06 Aug 1999 04:00:00

In article

.

Wow, I guess before you purchased the PDPI gamecard or any gamecard for
the matter, you didn't look for the requirements for YOUR device. It's
a shame, it's not the manufacturer's fault. Plus, why would a gamecard
care for MIDI as it does NOT produce sound.

I just think you should've just "thought before you bought". BTW, you
do have a sound card don't you? Just hook it up there for those FF
sensations.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

by **Ruud van Ga** » Sat, 07 Aug 1999 04:00:00

>In article

>.
>> All in all it's been a big disappointment for me this PDPI business.
>> Enough said.
>> Cheers

>Wow, I guess before you purchased the PDPI gamecard or any gamecard for
>the matter, you didn't look for the requirements for YOUR device. It's
>a shame, it's not the manufacturer's fault. Plus, why would a gamecard
>care for MIDI as it does NOT produce sound.

Because a gameport today usually provides MIDI. MIDI does not produce
sound in itself. In fact, I have used it for networking in older days.

Still, they (PDPI) KNOW this problem is a recurring one, so its better
to notify it somewhat more obviously).

Ruud van Gaal
MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl
Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

by **Sam A. Mancus** » Sun, 08 Aug 1999 04:00:00

This is something I have suggested to them directly with little action.
They have sold their Directinput force-feedback to Saitek and InterAct also
and both do a better job of specifying the requirement in the documentation.

Interestingly, Microsoft has opened up sharing the DirectInput technology
with I-Force so that the two can be streamlined into one standard one day.
It will be interesting how much of each is incorporated.

--
Sam Mancuso

Visit The Control Center for the latest PC Game Controller News, Reviews
and Information!

> >Because a gameport today usually provides MIDI. MIDI does not produce
> >sound in itself. In fact, I have used it for networking in older days.

> Only if it comes as part of a soundcard. No add-on gameport that I've
> ever seen provides MIDI, I've tried the PDPI, the CH Gameport3, the
> Thrustmaster ACM card, and one or two others that I've forgotten. None
> of them provided MIDI.

> >Still, they (PDPI) KNOW this problem is a recurring one, so its better
> >to notify it somewhat more obviously).

> Perhaps, but if you consider the fact that Microsoft's force feedback
> controllers are the only ones in the world that use the MIDI lines, it
> might be more appropriate for Microsoft to make customers aware of
> their completely non-standard requirements.

> Trips

rec.autos.simulators

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PDPI and MSFF Wheel: INCOMPATIBLE?

PDPI and MSFF Wheel: INCOMPATIBLE?

PDPI and MSFF Wheel: INCOMPATIBLE?

PDPI and MSFF Wheel: INCOMPATIBLE?

PDPI and MSFF Wheel: INCOMPATIBLE?

PDPI and MSFF Wheel: INCOMPATIBLE?