rec.autos.simulators

by **hotdo..** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I see lots of people here reporting that there is splt axis in GP3
well it there sort of but it's also not there in another way, what GP3
has is the same options as GP2 has but with a 2 more buttons for each
joystick, this is what you are able to pick from.

Joy 1 A & B Axis Buttons 1-4
Joy 2 A & B Axis Buttons 1-4

There is no optin for any other axis other than above so if you have a
wheel/pedal combo that uses RZ or RX or R as the 3rd axis so you have
seperate brake & thr then you are stuck in combined mode im affraid.
Also if you have any more buttons than the 4 on your wheel Gp3 wont
use them, I have a MS Wheel and to get the paddels to be used as
shifters I had to create a profile with SHIF & SPACE assigned to them,
the joystick menu in GP3 wouldnt let me use them.

Ok other stuff about GP3 as tested on my rig.

As for the graphics they is not much diffrence in looks at 1024x768 &
800x600 in both 3d & softwear mode as far as I can tell, the only
things that is using the D3D acceleration in 3D hardwaer mode are the
***pit wheel, grass texture, track texture,sky texture, other than
that everything else looks like bitmaps and you can really see this in
the cars ahead and in the mirrors, they are very flat and dont look 3d
at all, F1 2000 has far better car models and***pit than GP3. And as
I have said before there is a certain time when the cars are floating
on the track as you get closer or futher away from them, this is both
seen ahead of you and in the mirrors, it happens when the cars take
a graphic change in the GP3 graphics engine.

As for gameplay though GP3 is going to kick F1 2000 into touch as the
AI is like 200% better than F1 2000 and this is what it all about.
also the rain is very cool.

Im running a Celeron P366 O/C to 458
V3 3000
128 meg SDRAM
Computer is running 98% resourse free.

GP3 in 800x600 mode
textures on all in front except for kerbs & walls, mirrors have
everything off except track, kerbs, walls with no texture on.

Occupancy levels at IMOLA are still way up on the first 2 corners
170-230 but then drop to well below 100 as soon as the first lap is
done. To get the occupancy below 100 at all time I had to run in
640x480.

Im going to keep the wearz verion on my drive untill the game is
released in NZ on Aug 2nd and I see the reports in RAS on the full
retail version, if a few things havent been fixed in the full version
then I will delete the wearz version and not bother with GP3 and go
back to F1 2000 and wait for F1 2001.

Things that would make me but it there fixed in the full retail
version

Better Joysick/wheel support
Being able to hear other cars while in my own car

Other than that it seems pretty complete.
Hotdog

He he Flame away I dont really care, just offering you a small take on
the GP3 as I see it. hope it helps

by **rob** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>I see lots of people here reporting that there is splt axis in GP3
>well it there sort of but it's also not there in another way, what GP3
>has is the same options as GP2 has but with a 2 more buttons for each
>joystick, this is what you are able to pick from.

>Joy 1 A & B Axis Buttons 1-4
>Joy 2 A & B Axis Buttons 1-4

>There is no optin for any other axis other than above so if you have a
>wheel/pedal combo that uses RZ or RX or R as the 3rd axis so you have
>seperate brake & thr then you are stuck in combined mode im affraid.
>Also if you have any more buttons than the 4 on your wheel Gp3 wont
>use them, I have a MS Wheel and to get the paddels to be used as
>shifters I had to create a profile with SHIF & SPACE assigned to them,
>the joystick menu in GP3 wouldnt let me use them.

Seems pretty strange, doesn't it? Especially considering that in the
"Thanks & Acknowledgements" section of the readme.txt file, they thank
Logitech, Guillemot, and Microsoft Hardware for "their help and
support on this project." So, it would seem that Crammond and Co. are
at least AWARE of the situation, even though they haven't (as yet)
done anything about it.

by **Jan Loebzie** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>it happens when the cars take
>a graphic change in the GP3 graphics engine.

Yep, the sudden change in car detail and apparently car size(!) is
most annoying. It's like the car makes a jump if you get closer, very
distracting in tight situations, it totally ruins your estimation of
the distance to the other car.

by **Marc Collin** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Thanks for confirming that is does not support split axis. It supports two
"joysticks," but that has little to do with split axis support. And, if the
game isn't programmed to permit gas and brake to be applied simultaneously,
and react properly to that kind of input, it isn't a sim.

In 1996 we might have called it a sim. In 2000, no way.

Marc.

by **John** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>Thanks for confirming that is does not support split axis. It supports two
>"joysticks," but that has little to do with split axis support. And, if the
>game isn't programmed to permit gas and brake to be applied simultaneously,
>and react properly to that kind of input, it isn't a sim.

>In 1996 we might have called it a sim. In 2000, no way.

>Marc.

Agreed.

Hoping that the final version is somehow fixed.

I hope someone at Microprose/Hasbro let Geoff out of his coding
isolation cell sometime in the last 4 years and showed him some of the
features we've come to expect as required in sims, such as support for
split axis and axis not on Joystick 2.

How the hell can you develop FF and not notice that most FF wheels have
split axis support and that they need Axis Z and R...

Anyhow, looking forward to next week when our Euro friends can
confirm or deny whether the final version has the same problem.

--John
--

by **Jan Loebzie** » Mon, 24 Jul 2000 04:00:00

On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:35:32 GMT, "Marc Collins"

>Thanks for confirming that is does not support split axis. It supports two
>"joysticks," but that has little to do with split axis support. And, if the
>game isn't programmed to permit gas and brake to be applied simultaneously,
>and react properly to that kind of input, it isn't a sim.

I don't see your point. It's perfectly possible with two sticks.
You can use stick A X-axis for steering, stick B X-axis for acc and
stick B Y-axis for brake. So you can apply acc and brake independently
at the same time, and the game calculates and models both at the same
time, just like GP2 did.

The only problem for me is that it didn't recognize my pedals at all.
I had to use keys for steering and the two stick A axes for acc/brake
to confirm my above statement.

Blaze

by **Peter Hol** » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:35:32 GMT, "Marc Collins"

>>Thanks for confirming that is does not support split axis. It supports two
>>"joysticks," but that has little to do with split axis support. And, if the
>>game isn't programmed to permit gas and brake to be applied simultaneously,
>>and react properly to that kind of input, it isn't a sim.

>I don't see your point. It's perfectly possible with two sticks.
>You can use stick A X-axis for steering, stick B X-axis for acc and
>stick B Y-axis for brake. So you can apply acc and brake independently
>at the same time, and the game calculates and models both at the same
>time, just like GP2 did.

>The only problem for me is that it didn't recognize my pedals at all.
>I had to use keys for steering and the two stick A axes for acc/brake
>to confirm my above statement.

>Blaze

To use Joystick B in GP3 you need to have a second joystick port,
requiring a PDPI card or similar. If you plug your pedals in the
second port, configure them in Windows as a 2 axis joystick then split
axis works perfectly. We can only hope that whoever made this design
decision has had their bum kicked because it is incompatible with the
vast majority of controllers on the market. Oh, and that it's
changed.

Peter

by **Marc Collin** » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Thanks to you as well for confirming that is does not support split axis.
It supports two "joysticks," but that has little to do with split axis
support that is found on any popularly available FFB wheel today.

No, I'm not going to buy two joysticks, add a second game port, blah, blah,
blah. I have a USB FFB wheel that supports split axis. It is specially
designed for racing games. Racing games that are properly designed support
available hardware (especially a hardware design (split axis) that has been
on the market for more than 2 years).

Marc.

> On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:35:32 GMT, "Marc Collins"

> >Thanks for confirming that is does not support split axis. It supports
two
> >"joysticks," but that has little to do with split axis support. And, if
the
> >game isn't programmed to permit gas and brake to be applied
simultaneously,
> >and react properly to that kind of input, it isn't a sim.

> I don't see your point. It's perfectly possible with two sticks.
> You can use stick A X-axis for steering, stick B X-axis for acc and
> stick B Y-axis for brake. So you can apply acc and brake independently
> at the same time, and the game calculates and models both at the same
> time, just like GP2 did.

> The only problem for me is that it didn't recognize my pedals at all.
> I had to use keys for steering and the two stick A axes for acc/brake
> to confirm my above statement.

> Blaze

by **clon** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Having two joysticks is critical in having split axis, your normal
game port provides two joysticks by itself, each with 2 buttons and 2
axi. So you have J1 X for steering, J1 Y for acceleration and J2 X (or
Y) for braking, thereby being able to brake and accelerate at the same
time.

The reason a LWFF doesnt work split axis is because it assigns the
brake to a Z axis on J1 (presumably), all they need to do is make an
option to allow the brake to go on the J2 X (or Y) axis.

(I would like to know if anyone has got the LWFF going in split axis
though, it may be possible), I have only tried it with GP2 and thats
what the problem is(GP2 not supporting Z axis).

On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:05:05 GMT, "Marc Collins"

>Thanks to you as well for confirming that is does not support split axis.
>It supports two "joysticks," but that has little to do with split axis
>support that is found on any popularly available FFB wheel today.

>No, I'm not going to buy two joysticks, add a second game port, blah, blah,
>blah. I have a USB FFB wheel that supports split axis. It is specially
>designed for racing games. Racing games that are properly designed support
>available hardware (especially a hardware design (split axis) that has been
>on the market for more than 2 years).

>Marc.

by **Vintoo** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I tried everything with my LWFF and nothing, You can only do combined
pedals. GP3 needs a serious patch for this. Making a game in todays market
that doesn't support 90% of the wheel market is moronic, I can't believe
they would let this game out the door like this but if the final is the same
then we know this warez copy is the final beta or even the final.

Vintook

> Having two joysticks is critical in having split axis, your normal
> game port provides two joysticks by itself, each with 2 buttons and 2
> axi. So you have J1 X for steering, J1 Y for acceleration and J2 X (or
> Y) for braking, thereby being able to brake and accelerate at the same
> time.

> The reason a LWFF doesnt work split axis is because it assigns the
> brake to a Z axis on J1 (presumably), all they need to do is make an
> option to allow the brake to go on the J2 X (or Y) axis.

> (I would like to know if anyone has got the LWFF going in split axis
> though, it may be possible), I have only tried it with GP2 and thats
> what the problem is(GP2 not supporting Z axis).

> On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:05:05 GMT, "Marc Collins"

> >Thanks to you as well for confirming that is does not support split axis.
> >It supports two "joysticks," but that has little to do with split axis
> >support that is found on any popularly available FFB wheel today.

> >No, I'm not going to buy two joysticks, add a second game port, blah,
blah,
> >blah. I have a USB FFB wheel that supports split axis. It is specially
> >designed for racing games. Racing games that are properly designed
support
> >available hardware (especially a hardware design (split axis) that has
been
> >on the market for more than 2 years).

> >Marc.

by **clon** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Well, although GP3 should support it, I think logitech should make an
option for turning the RZ axis into J2 X axis, because there were
never any patches for GP2.

>I tried everything with my LWFF and nothing, You can only do combined
>pedals. GP3 needs a serious patch for this. Making a game in todays market
>that doesn't support 90% of the wheel market is moronic, I can't believe
>they would let this game out the door like this but if the final is the same
>then we know this warez copy is the final beta or even the final.

>Vintook

by **Eldre** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>To use Joystick B in GP3 you need to have a second joystick port,
>requiring a PDPI card or similar. If you plug your pedals in the
>second port, configure them in Windows as a 2 axis joystick then split
>axis works perfectly. We can only hope that whoever made this design
>decision has had their bum kicked because it is incompatible with the
>vast majority of controllers on the market. Oh, and that it's
>changed.

>Peter

Well, THAT sucks. You have to redo your PHYSICAL controller setup just for
*one* game? It would be acceptable(maybe) if you just had to reconfigure in
the control panel...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +69.95

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Joe6** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>The reason a LWFF doesnt work split axis is because it assigns the
>brake to a Z axis on J1 (presumably), all they need to do is make an
>option to allow the brake to go on the J2 X (or Y) axis.

Dear sir,

Welcome to the 21st century. You will find we have cell phones, the
Internet, many fine waterparks, and steering wheel systems with more
than two axis. Please enjoy your stay!

Joe McGinn
_____________________
Radical Entertainment

by **ymenar** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Even then, it wouldn't work in GP3. J2 X and Y axis are not supported if
they are plugged into the same port. You need a second Joystick installed
on a different port to make it work (ex : USB + Midi port).

This problem makes GP3 seriously flawed. Geoff just lives in the
middle-age, it seems. And his ego is way to big for him to step on the
public place and admit such thing. We all know he never interviews anybody,
nor respond to the problem his software faces.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Richard Walke** » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00

> Having two joysticks is critical in having split axis, your normal
> game port provides two joysticks by itself, each with 2 buttons and 2
> axi. So you have J1 X for steering, J1 Y for acceleration and J2 X (or
> Y) for braking, thereby being able to brake and accelerate at the same
> time.

Agreed.

Wrong.

The problem is with Microprose - *they* need to alter GP3 so that it can use
any axis, just like any other racing game since 1996.

Having said that, it should be possible for Logitech to come up with some
kind of software bodge... and I have more faith in them than I do with
Microprose. :-/

I'm trying, but getting nowhere. :-(

--
Richard.

"Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends."

rec.autos.simulators

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B

GP3 & 3 Axis is no go if your using anything other than Joy A&B