rec.autos.simulators

by **hanse..** » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

IMHO graphics are really important in racing sims when you are relying
pretty much on nothing other than the graphics (and the sound to a
lesser extent) for everything. It doesn't have to be pretty but it
does have to make it easy to spot braking points, get a sense of
speed, and get a feel for how far away things are.

Chris

>>> That's weird... The last time I checked, GP2 had a more than adequate
>>level of
>>> playability.

>>I guess you checked it on the the Pentium 166 available in those days?

>Yes I did. Turned down the graphics. Enjoyed the playability.

>As you said: "playability is ESSENTIAL", graphics only "fun".

>The playability was there, the higher detail graphics levels were a
>bonus.

>>OF COURSE GP2 can run with all graphic detail on a P3-600.
>>But still... only just.

>With the exception of Monaco, I'm sure most run very adequately full
>detail on something like a PII-350. And with "a lot" of detail it ran
>ok on p166-p200 (with typical framerates of '96). Don't judge the
>whole game based on Monaco.

>>> You know, some people understood that they could turn down the
>>> graphics without losing the playability.

>>Just like I did. But GP2 look awful then. ICR2 was ten times better.
>>My point always was: Geoff made a game that produced stunning screenshots,
>>but NO ONE at the time was able to play the game with a graphic level that
>>came close to the screenshots ...
>>Isn't that misleading?

>Aren't you a just a little bit naive? "Don Quixote" battling against
>all the marketing departments of the world... Good luck.

>At least the playability ("the playability is ESSENTIAL" etc...)was
>there, unlike some other recent resource hogs that I will not name.

>Do you try to run Quake III in 32bit 1920*1600 on your lousy system
>because they made it possible to scale with hardware?

>>My God I even bought a PC because GP2 was coming...
>>only to find out that my 'high performance PC' was much to slow for the
>>game.

>For full-detail graphics, not for the "playability" part.

>>So Geoff Crammond owes me one, thats how I feel...

>Very convenient. Smart. I guess some people are good at finding
>reasons to act wrong without feeling guilty <G>

>>If thats NOT ok with you... I don't give a ****

>Hmmmmmm.. I'm not surprised really.....

>JoH

by **Andre Warrin** » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

><snip>

>I know for a fact that you speak for a big portion of simracing fans Andre.
>Thanks for saying what others fear to...

>> Add the slomo problems to that, and I still deeply regret that I
>> bought GP2...

>...apart for that GP2 bashing. How can you not like it? I had fun with it
>on my old Pentium 100 back in the days, in VGA with most of the graphics
>eliminated. But it was still an incredible feeling. I have yet to see
>(excluding GPL) that same sense of "being in a real F1 car". ;-)

I knew I would offend people with this :)
I immeditately admit that I didn't give GP2 enough chance, I hardly
played it. Everytime I installed it again and gave it another try, I
was so frustrated with the slowmo thing, I really hated it.
I didn't know anything about car physics at that time, and I hardly
knew anything about F1 racing at all, so I didn't give GP2 the
attention it deserved.
It's since GPL that I've become deeply interested in car physics and
car racing in general. The more I learn about physics and racing, the
more fun it becomes watching real races.

Andre

by **Zonk** » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

>> Usenet comments have an insignificant effect on sales and

>How can you be so sure Bruce? The Internet has the power for that even
>today. Why do you think the movie BattleField Earth or Batman&Robin have
>failed at the box-office? One of the reason was the backslash on the net.
>Or how can you understand the success of the Blair Witch project, with
>almost only internet marketing? Same goes for games, I do think it can
>apply to the same situation. The internet (Usenet in this case, but
>technically this has more wisdom than any other "sectors" of the net) has
>the power to effect significantly sales for any type of Entertainment.

Usenet is pretty much useless these days. No one comes here, no one pays
attention. The web is the focus.

Z.

Please remove my_pants when replying.

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

I've never owned a 485 DX2, Frank. Maybe that's why it was a bit slow,
d'you think?

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

> > I can run GP2 with all detail on (including sky) on a PII 450 and the
only
> > tracks that slow down at all are those done by third-party fans.

> GP2 can run at 25fps with all details on with a 485 DX2 in SVGA. Of
course,
> it will take you 30minutes just to make a lap.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.WeRace.net
> -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Because I was directly involved for seven years in the retail of games
software, Francois, and indirectly for the past two-and-a-half years. That's
how.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

> > Usenet comments have an insignificant effect on sales and

> How can you be so sure Bruce? The Internet has the power for that even
> today. Why do you think the movie BattleField Earth or Batman&Robin have
> failed at the box-office? One of the reason was the backslash on the net.
> Or how can you understand the success of the Blair Witch project, with
> almost only internet marketing? Same goes for games, I do think it can
> apply to the same situation. The internet (Usenet in this case, but
> technically this has more wisdom than any other "sectors" of the net) has
> the power to effect significantly sales for any type of Entertainment.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.WeRace.net
> -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Goy Larse** » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> I feel sorry for those who have to pay the tel. co. for online time. :-(

Thx, appreciated :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

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by **Goy Larse** » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> Since GP3 is going to be going gold at the end of this month (thats june and
> thats not a rumor but a fact). I wouldnt be surprise if a warez copy came
> out soon after. I am wonder if anyone will try to get it so they can try
> the game out ahead of time. If you get are you going to buy the game our
> keep the game. I'm going to buy the game, just wondering about you other
> guys.

I'm taking the 5th on this one :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

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by **Goy Larse** » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> I don't think it sold poorly because people were getting it from warez, though.
> There were completely different circumstances...the era represented, lack of
> modern, 'well-known' drivers, the difficulty of controlling the car...

Anyone who thought GPL would be a huge "best seller" ought to get their
heads examined, it had everything against it in the mass market, I'm
surprised it sold as bad as it did though, but I'm sure Papy would have
been delighted if this had ended up with a minimal loss, that way a lot
of the development needed for N4 would already have been paid for by
those of us who bought GPL

Wonder how much they actually lost on GPl when everything they could use
for N4 have been calculated into it ....

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

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by **Goy Larse** » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> JoH, I understand your points, and when I bought the game I didn't
> expect that I could run it in SVGA with all details on. But I could
> not run it on my P133 in SVGA with allmost all the details off, the
> slowmo problems were terrible.

Andre, if you couldn't get a decent (not perfect :-) frame rate on a 133
at the time in SVGA, then your vid card must have sucked really bad, I
ran it just fine (time has diluted the experience of course and I only
remember the good stuff :-) on my P120 with a 2MB S3 based Diamond
Stealth and 32 MB of RAM, yes, I DID turn off the smoke and sky :-), I
did some research before I got the S3 based card though, as it was one
of the best for SVGA-DOS at the time, but that's no different that
hunting around for the best 3D card now is it ?

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

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by **Goy Larse** » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> YES!

> If GP3 runs as bad on my system as GP2 did when it was released (and I had a
> high performance PC then!) Mr Crammond and friend won't get any money from
> me!

Funny, I had no problems getting it to run good on my P120, guess I'm
just incredibly good at configuring my PC....

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

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by **Eldre** » Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:00:00

>> I don't think it sold poorly because people were getting it from warez,
>though.
>> There were completely different circumstances...the era represented, lack
>of
>> modern, 'well-known' drivers, the difficulty of controlling the car...

>> Eldred

>I concur with that statement. I've tried the GPL demo many times and I have
>a very hard time completing a lap without going into the grass or what not.
>This game is extremely difficult. That is why I have not purchased it. Maybe
>someday if I see it in a bargain bin, I'll pick it up. But for now, I can't
>justify paying $50-60 for this game based on the demo. Papyrus IMO has
>always been a little guilty of not translating loss of grip. I remember
>having to be oh so gentle in road courses in ICR2 (and the original for that
>matter!) because I could never tell when I was at the limit. Even though GP2
>ran like a dog when it first came out (hell, I bought a Pentium Pro 200
>thinking it would run better) it was always far more accessible to the
>average sim racer. By that, I mean people who like the simulation of an F1
>season or race without being constantly frustrated.
>Regardless, based on the playability of World Circuit (GP1 across the pond)
>and GP2 I will buy GP3. Although I will pick up the warez if it's available
>before GP3 arrives in North America.

I think it already IS in the bargain bin. Try www.dragon.ca or
www.interactcd.com. As for grip in Papy sims, I thought ICR2 was a LOT worse
than ICR. I had to re-learn all the tracks again. I couldn't get through them
as fast in the second one as I could in the first...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. 2:12.80 minutes GPLRank:333 and falling..

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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by **Andre Warrin** » Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:00:00

>Andre, if you couldn't get a decent (not perfect :-) frame rate on a 133
>at the time in SVGA, then your vid card must have sucked really bad, I
>ran it just fine (time has diluted the experience of course and I only
>remember the good stuff :-) on my P120 with a 2MB S3 based Diamond
>Stealth and 32 MB of RAM, yes, I DID turn off the smoke and sky :-), I
>did some research before I got the S3 based card though, as it was one
>of the best for SVGA-DOS at the time, but that's no different that
>hunting around for the best 3D card now is it ?

I can't even remember what video card I had, it was a Diamond Stealth,
but I can't remember which version it was or how much memory my pc had
at that time. Fact was that is was a very good system for all the
other sims released at that time, all racing and flight sims run
perfectly in SVGA.

Andre

by **Goy Larse** » Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> I can't even remember what video card I had, it was a Diamond Stealth,
> but I can't remember which version it was or how much memory my pc had
> at that time. Fact was that is was a very good system for all the
> other sims released at that time, all racing and flight sims run
> perfectly in SVGA.

Strange, not saying that GP2 wasn't a CPU hog, but I honestly didn't
have much trouble running it in SVGA, except in multiplayer of course
:-), but we even ran it on a P90 here in the shop, although at that
point we didn't have much detail on of course, but we still maxed out
the FPS without much slomo....

Having said all that, I tied GP2 on my P3-600 a couple of months back,
still can't get constant FPS at Monaco with everything on :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

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by **Goy Larse** » Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:00:00

I do seem to remember that we used to load some kind of driver though,
but I can't remember the name of it, UniVBE was the "plain Vanilla"
variant, and then there was this other thing....memory ain't what it
used to be :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
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by **Andre Warrin** » Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:00:00

>Strange, not saying that GP2 wasn't a CPU hog, but I honestly didn't
>have much trouble running it in SVGA, except in multiplayer of course
>:-), but we even ran it on a P90 here in the shop, although at that
>point we didn't have much detail on of course, but we still maxed out
>the FPS without much slomo....

Weird indeed. Well, it was way before I had my internet connection,
and I didn't even know what Usenet was, let alone RAS, so I never took
the time to find out if GP2 could run any better on my system.
I had a couple of friends who also bought GP2, and it run really bad
in their systems as well, so I never thought it could be much
improved.

As I said, I found that problem even bigger than the bad framerate in
SVGA problem!

Andre

rec.autos.simulators

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???

GP3 - ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE WAREZ COPY???