rec.autos.simulators

Well, after hearing all kinds of raving about SODA, I gave in and forked
over the VISA last night...  and I was a little dissapointed actually. :(
I'm not quite sure what it is, but this is my 3rd Papy racing sim
(CR, N2, SODA), and they just don't quite do it for me.  So I'm throwing
this out for comments, to see what you guys think.

After thinking about it for a while, I came up with these:

- I don't seem to get a very good sensation of speed from them.  I find
  myself constantly having to check the speedo while approaching turns
  to tell myself to apply the brakes.  Then the sensation of 'braking'
  doesn't seem as strong as, say GP2.  In otherwords, GP2 'feels'
  significantly different with the throttle wide open, vs standing on
  the brakes... whereas with the Papy sims, it just kinda feels like the
  thing is slowling down just because you asked it nicely to.

- I seem to have lots of problems with depth perception with Papy sims.
  This isn't quite as bad with SODA, as with N2 and CR.  N2 was the
  worst for me, since there is no bumper cam - I actually found it
  easier to drive using the chase cam! :)  CR is much better -- I'm
  constantly turning in too soon, or not quite soon enough.  Either that
  or I find myself looking down at the tire marks... and then looking up
  just in time to see a nice friendly wall coming over for a visit.

- Papy sims just doesn't feel like I'm actually in the car being thrown
  around..  SODA is actually not too bad, but N2 and CR kinda makes me
  feel as if I was sitting on an air-puck being pushed around. Actually,
  the worst for this was Screamer Rally2, which I promptly tossed after
  20mins of air-hockey (but it doesn't count in this discussion since
  it's not a Papy.. well, I don't really consider it a real sim anyway).

Generally speaking, the simms that I'm constantly going back to are
NFS-SE, GP2, and RAC.  They each have their problems, but one thing that
they seem in common is that they've all done a pretty good job with the
above 3 things.  At least for my sleep deprived brain anyway. :-)

Does anyone else have any thoughts?  I don't have the money to terrorise
cows grazing near backroads, while tearing around at 250km/hr; nor can I
ever hope to get into an F1 car, let alone drive one.. So I've no idea
how accurate any of the simms are, but what do you guys think?

- me

First of all, those are NOT Formula1 cars, they don't have 40000$ disk brake
on each wheel.  From real SODA footage I saw, the braking is exaclty right
(maybe a little tiny to much of oversteer but it's still awesome).

I think this is due to the way the clipping in front of the car appears.
Well, kinda like in AirSims to not make the polygons appear in  "pop-up"
style they put fog (AFAIK). Well, Papy sims Pop-up (ex: the inner-loop at
the Glen) but SODA tacks are soo little that It's kinda easy to see ahead.
Btw it also depends on the view. I'm always in in-car mode and the***pit
sometimes is quite tricky!

Like I said above, it's the way 2different game engine make you see in
front. If you remember with Cart:PR you have a zoom mode so you can zoom the
view ahead or behind.  You may have discovered the "lucky-spot" that fits
your style just well :). (btw I have the view in Cart:PR I fell it's not
enough "Papyrys" Heh 2 different opinions.

Thanks for making the point about SR2 ;-) . Well Papy's game have it's own
game engine (like each Simracing company) so it all depends on personnal
preference. At the points N2 and CR were made (Remember they are more than
1year and a half old !!!!!!!) the game engine only could make the cars
"float" on the track. In Soda the game engine has been upgraded alot and it
will even more with N3 and GPLegends. The technology IMHO was just not
available at this time (mainly because N2 is the continuation of the game
engine of Icr2/N1/Icr1).

I found every simracing title interesting, I play all of them (Even the old
Indy500) but nothing makes me more happy than race with 20other people in
the night at Richmond on the NROS.

Yep I agree 100%. I'm here to enjoy every moment I pass behind my wheel.
Lets enjoy what they all do to us.

* Fran?ois Mnard

* With great respect,
* May the downforce be with you,
* Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)

* <ymenard> on NROS, sponsored by
* http://www.racesimcentral.net/
* SimRacing director, AWPSS

* Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
* Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
* Excuse me for my provocative posts and reply's <g>

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end

(snip)
Welcome to the most realistic simracing title made until now.!
(unsnip)

Oh, get real, mate!

--
Bruce.
(At home)

But question to you... Witch one in your own opinion is the most realistic
simulation racing title made until now ?

F1RS ? Gp2 ? Cart:PR ? Icr2 ? N2 ? etc...

Oh yeah lets define also what we call as "realistic". It would be stupid to
argument on the same word with 2 different definition of it (a.k. the Bill
Clinton controversy).

For me, I choose Soda for it's incredible game engine, the AI witch is
excellent and the controls that are fine and makes you feel like your racing
a real buggy or trucks.  I don't care about graphics, but I like those
flashy colors, it makes the track very easy to understand.  Graphics will
never do game (ex: NFS2:SE). We are talking pure simracing title here. Oh
yeah also take in consideration the little staff that made SODA: Off-road.
They don`t have the budget, staff or TRI but look what they done... IMHO the
best simracing title of the year.

* Fran?ois Mnard

* With great respect,
* May the downforce be with you,
* Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)

* <ymenard> on NROS, sponsored by
* http://www.awpss.com/
* SimRacing director, AWPSS

* Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
* Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
* Excuse me for my provocative posts and reply's <g>

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`
end

Thanks btw for your point of view who is helping a lot this thread.
And the award for the most immature post of the year goes to.....

<druming roll>
JPS !
<clap clap clap !>

* Fran?ois Mnard

* With great respect,
* May the downforce be with you,
* Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)

* <ymenard> on NROS, sponsored by
* http://www.awpss.com/
* SimRacing director, AWPSS

* Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
* Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
* Excuse me for my provocative posts and reply's <g>

begin 666 ymenard.vcf
M0D5'24XZ5D-!4D0-"DXZ3>EN87)D.T9R86[G;VES.TXN#0I&3CIY;65N87)D

M3#M#14Q,.U9/24-%.DXO00T*5$5,.TA/344[1D%8.DXO00T*0412.TA/344Z
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M+F%W<'-S+F-O;2\-"E523#IH='1P.B\O=W=W+F%W<'-S+F-O;2\-"D5-04E,
M.U!2148[24Y415).150Z>6UE;F%R9$!A=W!S<RYC;VT-"D5.1#I60T%21 T*
`
end

---Jim

                                     ~~~~~~~~~
Looks like it's spreading ;-)

Cheers,
Richard

Regards,  Rick Carlson

Annoying Lengthy Bandwidth Wasting Sig Deleted.

:
: >
: >> For me, I choose Soda for it's incredible game engine, the AI witch is
: >> excellent...
: >
: >Where can I get the patch that adds withcraft to the game? :-)
:
: You can download it from the Blizzard site. Provides you with axes to
                                                                ^^^^
: throw at the faster AI vehicles as they whiz by....

Wouldn't hexes be more appropriate? :)

The problems I have always found with Papy sims are the following...

* There seems to be 2 types of car on the track; the player and the AI.
AI cars can zoom to a halt with no tyre lockups much quicker than player
cars if they wish to, particularly when approaching an incident. They
can also swivel on the spot, which creates the uncomfortable feeling
that you, as the player, are in inferior circumstances.

* The overall feeling has always been slightly rough around the edges.
Things like the teleport bug haven't helped, but the game has often felt
half-finished, which ironically doesn't really apply to sims like GP2
(which IS half-finished!).

* The graphics have generally been a let-down for the sim. Some might
argue that these aren't particularly important, but personally, I like
the trees to look a little better than badly scaled four-colour sprites,
and puffs of smoke that don't look like marshmallows. I admit, howeverm
I haven't tried a Rendition version of a Papy sim yet.

Hopefully, most of this stuff will be cleared up in GPL... If so, it
will be the greatest sim ever, no doubt...

--
Dave Bowers

I never really felt this way... but everyone will have their opinions
and preferences on this =)

I always thought the graphics were great in comparison to other games on
the market at time of release. This is MORE SO with the BGN expansion
packs.  The detail at Hickory is just incrediblt.  The BGN pack pushed
the envelope when it comes to detail and your surroundings.  Now.. this
does put a little tax on your processor and fps if you computer is not
up to the task.  Im really anxious to see the N3 graphics.  Remember
Papy.. options to turn the arms OFF is required!!  Dont let me down!! ;)

GPL should be a decent indication on how N3 will be. Or at least a way
for Papy to improve N3 through GPL feedback.  Totally different types of
racing... but both should be great!

Scott

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