rec.autos.simulators

Here is some information and comments that many on r.a.s. will be
interested to read. It comes from a letter I received from Dean today and
should be shared with the people who helped with feedback and advice to
develop the upcoming patch for CPR. And, this is only my opinion (not
Deans), I hope it makes some others do some serious thinking in regards to
the content of their future postings.

Dean says,

Here's an update on what we have worked on:-

1) The AI is better - just how much better you'll need to tell us
2) The performance is better - 3dfx sees a 70% increase on certain configs!
3) Object Brightness is controllable and track brightness is better
4) Null zone slider for controllers makes the steering more stable
5) Pits allow you to do the driving
6) Maximum steering lock increased to 18
7) Rain tires are no longer an advantage - should give some of those fast
lap times a challenge
8) Flat-shaded mode is in for those that want to play with those graphic
settings
9) Sound in replays for those that missed it
10) Better <default> garage setups for those that didn't try the garage
11) Professional cars are faster
12) Some other bug fixes - wings etc

All of these items were added as a result of my time spent on RAS.

And here's a little background on what I was doing there ...

I didn't * have * to be on RAS at all - I'm not even a PR or support guy -
I
am the General Manager of the MS Simulations Division -
(check out the CPR credits for my actual title - and in Flight Simulator
95,
Flight Simulator 98, Monster Truck Madness ... ).

I was there to listen and learn to what this group had to say - firsthand.

I now have a good understanding of what support teams go through on the
forums - and I know what
advice I will give them next time <g>

When it became obvious I had heard from the smart/mature/knowledgable
people
and we knew where to prioritize
our efforts I then became very tired of the repetitive nonsense from those
others out to score cheap points or to slam MS.

Noone has to put up with that - whoever they are - PR guys or GM's.

Several of the critics names' came up time and again slamming many
different
games and companies - on many different forums - even in different
catgories (strategy games, flight sims ...). How old are these guys? Don't
they have lives?

They complain that "noone listens to their opinions" - someone comes to
listen - so they take the opporunity to take some cheap shots!

The Publishers all leave - eventually. And the flamers have achieved ...
absolutely nothing.

The suggestions we listened to came from those who took the trouble to be
balanced and mature in their feedback - we only wish there
were more.

And to those people I say "THANK YOU" and don't let the idiots deter you
from providing your valuable thoughts and feedback in the future.

Many were so blinded by their desire to take a cheap shot at "M$" that they
didn't realize they had a chance to actually make a difference.

So now we're gone. Like Papyrus, Microprose and all the others. Don't they
see a trend?

You may even want to share this info with those (kind) folks who were
worried I might lose my "PR job" by leaving RAS (!).

So Patch is looking good. Editors are coming. I'm fine. And my teams are
working on some great stuff for next year!

Very good to hear.  Perhaps once patched, Microsoft will actually have
the game that was advertised...

--
Eric T. Busch

http://ebusch.akorn.net

I am NOT trying to start or rekindle another flamewar or beat a dead
horse, but honestly -- and I certainly invite feedback of any kind -- is
it just me, or does this sound rather immature from a guy who's the
General Manager of the MS Simulations Division? General Manager of a
Microsoft Division-- that's about as responsible a professional position
as it's possible to have anywhere on the planet. Now, I realize that
Dean puts his pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us, but
*really*, is this the sort of public thinking that one would consider
appropriate to such a powerful and responsible position?

Dean Lester:

"When it became obvious I had heard from the smart/mature/knowledgable
people and we knew where to prioritize our efforts I then became very
tired of the repetitive nonsense from those others out to score cheap
points or to slam MS...

They complain that "no one listens to their opinions" - someone comes to
listen - so they take the opporunity to take some cheap shots!

The Publishers all leave - eventually. And the flamers have achieved ...
absolutely nothing.

The suggestions we listened to came from those who took the trouble to
be balanced and mature in their feedback - we only wish there were
more."

I'm sorry, but "score cheap points" with whom? For what possible
purpose? "Slam MS"? First of all, slamming Microsoft is a bona fide
national pasttime (please don't misunderstand me, I'm not condoning the
*unearned* generalized trashing of MS); the tiny bit represented by this
very small appendix to the Brobdignagian giant that is Microsoft is so
insignificant as to be beneath the noise floor of general civilization.
Second, and for that very reason, why should anyone at MS care what
people in here say about them?

For pity's sake, has no one ever used a "delete" key? That's what I do
to messages that I consider "nonsense."

This is my very own personal opinion, but it seems to me that for the
General Manager of Microsoft's Simulation Division to publicly and
arbitrarily divide the subscribers to this newsgroup into
"smart/mature/knowledgable people...those who took the trouble to be
balanced and mature" on the one hand, and relegate those who criticise
the very real problems (or they wouldn't be writing a patch) with CPR as
purveyors of "repetitive nonsense...out to score cheap points or to slam
MS" and "flamers" on the other, is just not professional behavior, and
is disingenuous and divisive in the extreme. It is all too easy, and all
too common, to use the term "flamer" to dismiss those who have real
concerns, and to negate the validity of their concerns by the simple use
of this pejorative. It has ever been thus, but it has NEVER been right.
It's just an easy cop-out.

Interesting that this was a private email, but Mr. Lester chose to allow
it to be made public, with this subtly suggestive parting comment:

"You may even want to share this info with those (kind) folks who were
worried I might lose my "PR job" by leaving RAS (!)"  

Am I the only person who sees it this way? I've certainly been full of
s**t before...

Bart brown

Not to me...

- Mike.

====================================================
 Mike Holthouse - Indianapolis, IN
 I'm sick of spam!! To e-mail me, remove the "x"...
====================================================

I don't think so. Dean is either a) still too steamed to think
straight, or b) desperately trying to spin the [mostly valid]
criticisms of CPR. Either way it's not too professional.

Joe

It doesn't sound immature at all.  It sounds quite reasonable given that
Microsoft and all of the other game manufacturers could sell about 99.8% of
the amount of the titles they sell now whether anyone on this group existed,
gave a shit, complained, screamed and flamed, or whatever.

The ONLY relevant issue left, now that Dean is gone, is how will Microsoft
treat those people who bought CART 1.0 if it turns out major and annoying
patching is required to "finish" the game.  If they are willing to provide
replacement CD's, then I have no complaints.  Since I am still waiting for
much more minor patchwork on my ageing copy of GP2, I think I can hold out
'til next week for the CART patch.

   Imature???   Tired of BS sounds more like it.  Everybody wants the
programers to make their games perfect for that one individual.  When that
doesn't happen, we as individuals raise a stink.  Unfortunately, when we do
this as individuals, it hits the target more like a group reply.  and keeps
comming.  Types like Dean need to learn how to use the ignore command in
many newsreaders.  If there are certain folks who repeatedly argue just to
hear their own voice...ignore em.   Maybe send them a quck note thanking
them for the previous imput and then...zzzappp.  No more malcontents.  Of
course this then means that possibly a glaring error will go uncorrected.
but we bring that upon ourselves when we choose attack mode rather than
constructive dialoge mode.
dave henrie

  it seems odd that you expect (gratis I'm sure) a new cd.  Lets see.  Ever call
up GT interactive and get the final patched version of Doom or Quake??  How
about ICR2??  Well for 15 bucks you could get a new cd.  I'm not sure I can
recall a company that replaced a cd with a recomplied .exe that included all
patches, especially without cost or without shipping etc included..  Not that I
would have liked a perfect game...but I hope I haven't let my expectations get
the better of me...dave henrie

It doesnt really matter to Thomas Ent because we're on the beta team and
in the loop but for the rest of you guys, I'd think you'd miss Dean.
This is in no way intended as a flame, just one guys opinion.

Trev

Dave, point well made :) agreed 100%

Trev

Of course if we are the losers (in terms of not getting the products
we want), then by definition it also means that MS/TRI are the losers,
since they will not reap the benefit of all those sales.

I'd guess that all most people really need/want to know is that the
patch will address the issues that have been raised, and address them
satisfactorily. Given that the first version varied so wildly from
what was claimed, if Dean were here and told me tomorrow that the game
was perfect, I'd still wait and hear from someone like Randy, Joe or
Alison (or try the new demo) before I plonked my cash on the counter.

I hope that you guys on the test team can ensure that the product is
right this time before release, since if the original release wasn't a
commercial decision to go early with an unfinished product, I really
worry about the "testing" that was done vis-a-vis the way the product
was marketed.

Cheers!
John

All--

Thanks for your considerate replies.

Bart Brown

[huge snip]
Bart, I agree with a lot of what you're saying here. I also think
that, if Dean isn't a trained spin doctor / PR guy, he should have
hired one to help him with the burden of communicating with the
customers in this group. I disagree with your analysis in the
following paragraph, however.

Giving Dean the benefit of doubt (which a company rep usually
shouldn't need), I don't think it is necessary to read his comments as
"those who agree with me are thoughtful, the others are immature".
Let's face it, there are some "Beavis & Butthead" kids in this group
(and everywhere on usenet, except humanities.classics, maybe). They
*do* try "to score cheap points or to slam MS". There are also
"smart/mature/knowledgable people" who criticize in a civilized
manner, which doesn't mean that they have to say "CART PR is the
ultimate flawless sim."

I agree that, PR-wise, this is not a clever way to *publicly*
distinguish people when you're acting as a representative of a
company, but it is a valid distinction IMO.

--
Wolfgang Preiss       \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.
wopr"at"stud.uni-sb.de \ There is no "2" in my real e-mail address.
Uni des Saarlands       \ Sorry for the inconvenience. You know why.

Wolfgang--

Thanks for your insightful analysis, it's much appreciated. I must,
however, disagree with your main point: "I don't think it is necessary
to read his comments as 'those who agree with me are thoughtful, the
others are immature.'" That's exactly what *I* believed (this is, after
all, only opinion) to be the thrust of his remarks -- of course, the
only one who really knows is Dean Lester. However, in support of my
opinion, it seems that Mr. Lester is having a hard time letting go of
the "abuse" he feels he suffered here. I'm sure you've seen the
following post:

<<As posted on the APEX CART Precision Racing HQ, Dean Lester of

"Regardless of the various *** theories you may read, we listened
to your feedback - and have (quickly) acted on it.">>

Obviously the man feels there is some faction bent on discrediting
him/CPR/Microsoft -- any or all of the aforementioned. I don't believe
for a moment that's what happened here at all, regardless of the Beavae
& Buttheads...in fact, I don't think anyone was slammed as hard as those
who questioned the problems with CPR, and then "caused" Mr. Lester to
leave. That there is a certain tendency towards gracelessness and blunt
words in this newsgroup and newsgroups most everywhere is beyond doubt,
but, as I've remarked ad infinitum, ad nauseam, it is the unfortunate
burden of the "professional" to act professionally: Mr. Lester did not
act professionally in his graceless exit, and he is not acting
professionally now. Labels, stereotypes -- call them what you will -- I
just think it's easier for Mr. Lester to neatly package *all* his
critics into tidy little easy-to-dismiss packages like "immature,"
"flamers," "*** theorists," than it is to answer the difficult
and, I'm sure, embarrassing questions surrounding CPR's
Not-Ready-For-Prime-Time-But-Ready-Enough-For-Christmas launch.

Thanks again

Barton Brown

<<So why hang around if the ratio of data/***was getting so low?>>

I think that question has already been answered by the presence of John
Browne.

Bart