rec.autos.simulators

What are some of the laps you run with the patch for CART PR on
Intermediate/Pro skill level?

I was doing some laps at Detroit last night and was running about 1:09.  I know
I can get faster...I just took the Australia setup I had and worked from that
(you can probably get it from Mike's CPR Playground..I always forget the URL,
but you can link to it from http://cart.gamestats.com)

Anyway, I found the key to Detroit is basically smoothness.  You can take the
turns faster than you think as long as you are gentle on the throttle, use ALL
the road, and hit the lines right.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

Thanks.
I ran a 1:09.81 today.
I diden't get the Austrila setup, I just made my own.
Your right about the turns, smoothness is the key.

Just a side comment.  Isn't it amazing with all the complaining about CPR
that the car model is like you would expect a real Champ Car to act like on
these courses.  Now if we can just get MS/TRI to finish this sim (short oval
AI and speedway car model) this thing would be as real as it gets.  I was
running Toronto last night and smoothness is the key.

David Radecki

It is? I thought that's exactly what all te complaining was about?

Cheers!
John

I've spent a monster amount of time on CPR the last week.  Let me see if I can
tell you where I think its at.  

The upside of the patch is that it takes away a lot of grip, so its easier to
put the car into oversteer and so you have to learn how to not lock up the
brakes with very little pedal travel, and how to be very gradual applying the
throttle off the corners.  

The downside is that they just went too far with it and messed up the
speed:downforce ratios at the rear of the car. As a result, it is very
difficult to setup a car which has understeer on exit of corners.  You can
build in understeer on entry under trail braking (Btw, Alison's comment that
you cannot trail brake or brake without locking up is inaccurate.  I can only
think she didn't spend long enough trying), but you cannot really develop
enough of a push setup to be able to be more aggressive on corner exit.  On
most tracks, you can overcome this and put in competitive times simply by being
very smooth and taking it very easy on the throttle.  Setup doesn't seem to
matter anywhere near as much as driving style.

But at a track like Laguna Seca, I've found problems.  The track is very
narrow, and the most critical portions of the track are the uphill portions
where you need to carry a lot of RPM's up the hill.  The fact that you have to
slow down and really, really baby the throttle to avoid the rear end kicking
out, even at relatively high speeds (110+ mph) means that you don't get good
runs up the hill.  I downloaded the footage of a lap of Laguna Seca (you can
download it at http://www.racesimcentral.net/).  I used a stop watch on the video
to see where I was losing time (I've been doing 1:11.7 laps post-patch,
regardless of what I could do about the setup), and observed that I was in
pretty good shape up through the exit of turn 6.  I should be getting under the
overhanging PPG banner at about T+40 seconds, and I usually do it at around 41
seconds, and then between there and the end of the lap I'm losing 3 or 4
seconds.  I'm not sure why.  I don't know whether its because my speed at the
top of the hill isn't fast enough, braking isn't good enough, or what. I also
noticed that on the video the car gets to the last few brake markers for turn
11 at about 59 seconds, and completes the lap at about 1:07-1:08. (I think a
motorcycle was used for the video).  I cannot do this.  Even if I get to the
markers in about 1:00-1:02, it takes me around 10-11 seconds to get around the
corner and the S/F line.  So something is wrong here and I think its the fact
that I just have to be so darn gentle with the throttle  I can't get a good run
off of turn 11.   I know I'm also losing time babying the throttle and steering
coming off of turn 6.  There is nothing I've found that will allow me to make
this turn above 130 mph, and getting on the gas too quickly most certainly will
spin the car.

Also, the setups were not really altered for the patch, you find that any setup
is still tilted towards heavy oversteer, and its very difficult (if not
impossible) to build a balanced car.

Finally, there is something wrong with oversteer recovery.  You can counter
oversteer with opposite lock.  You can correct a near spin by braking heavily.
I don't see how that would help!  I would expect it would make the situation
worse.

Anyway, the model is far more realistic than it was, and I'm having a lot of
fun with CPR these days (if you look at the Laguna Seca lap video you'll be
amazed how faithfully the track is recreated in CPR), but the issues remaining
are that the team needs to work on getting the rear-grip:speed ratio more
accurate, and adjusting setup options to allow both understeer and oversteer to
be dialed in.

One more thing...for a  lot of the people complaining about the 'fish-eye'
view...I wonder if they used the -/= keys to zoom in/out.  I find that hitting
this about 4 times to zoom in nearly eliminates the fish-eyed view, and gives
me a better look at the track and feels more like what being in the***pit
should feel like.  Its easier to see the track ahead and I can place the wheels
where I want with more precision.

Randy

Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/