rec.autos.simulators

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

Ronald Stoeh

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

by Ronald Stoeh » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00


snip
> Weaving the car about to warm the tyres? Of course you can in GP3, and
> I am quite sure your -current- RL open-wheel race driver noticed when
> going back to the pits and checking his/her tyre temperatures. your
> -current- RL open-wheel race driver must enjoy being able to lock up
> before every corner without effect on said tyre wear tremendously,
> because there isn't any.

> What a great simulation!

Tyre wear IS simulated. Get with the program...

--
l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Mats Lofkvis

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

by Mats Lofkvis » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00



> snip
> > Weaving the car about to warm the tyres? Of course you can in GP3, and
> > I am quite sure your -current- RL open-wheel race driver noticed when
> > going back to the pits and checking his/her tyre temperatures. your
> > -current- RL open-wheel race driver must enjoy being able to lock up
> > before every corner without effect on said tyre wear tremendously,
> > because there isn't any.

> > What a great simulation!

> Tyre wear IS simulated. Get with the program...

Maybe Uwe is talking about weaving being useless in warming tyres?
Wasn't it Carol Smith that wrote that the only thing weaving
accomplishes is to increase the risk of hitting another car?

      _
Mats Lofkvist

Martin D. Pa

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

by Martin D. Pa » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00

On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 15:45:49 +0200, Ronald Stoehr

<snip>

If you mean in GP3, I'd have to agree. I have noticeably slower
lap times after 12 laps or so at high wear circuits. I assume
it's tyres - or my driving is deteriorating...  ^_-

I suppose I ought to try pitting for tyres some time (I usually
run 25% races, due to time constraints, so pitting isn't really
necessary to finish the game) to see if new tyres will push my
lap times back up.

Martin D. Pay
Still experimenting with GP3's settings...

Uwe Schuerka

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

by Uwe Schuerka » Sat, 05 Aug 2000 04:00:00



>Hold on a sec - are you suggesting that there is no tire wear in F1-2K?  
>Because if you are, I can send you some real interesting replays.  I
>can't get through a quarter of a race without the tires going kaput in a
>big way.  If anything, there's too much wear.  Or maybe I'm
>misunderstanding you?

No, I was on about someone claiming that you could weave the car about
in gp3 in order to warm up the tyres. Maybe I misunderstood the
previous postand and he was on about f12k, but to me it read like
he/she was trying to say that tyre temperature /wear is part of the
gp3 physics engine which it is clearly not.

sorry if my post caused any confusion,

uwe

--
Uwe Schuerkamp    http://www.schuerkamp.de/
GnuPG Fingerprint:  2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356  B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA
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Uwe Schuerka

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

by Uwe Schuerka » Sun, 06 Aug 2000 04:00:00





>> snip
>> > Weaving the car about to warm the tyres? Of course you can in GP3, and
>> > I am quite sure your -current- RL open-wheel race driver noticed when
>> > going back to the pits and checking his/her tyre temperatures. your
>> > -current- RL open-wheel race driver must enjoy being able to lock up
>> > before every corner without effect on said tyre wear tremendously,
>> > because there isn't any.

>> > What a great simulation!

>> Tyre wear IS simulated. Get with the program...

>Maybe Uwe is talking about weaving being useless in warming tyres?
>Wasn't it Carol Smith that wrote that the only thing weaving
>accomplishes is to increase the risk of hitting another car?

>      _

The weaving is supposed to get the slippery stuff off the surface of a
new set of tyres (that's what some guest-commenting racing driver
stated at least). Again I ask Ronald to provide proof that tyre wear
is modelled in GP3 if this is in fact what he claims. So far all we
have is proof for the opposite: no matter how you abuse the tyres
(locking up on every corner, massive wheelspin, etc) has no effect on
the longevity of the *** in GP3. Just claiming that is "IS"
modelled is neither productive nor convincing. You might try stomping
your foot. ;-)

"positive", n: Being wrong at the top of one's voice ("The devil's
dictionary")

Uwe
--
Uwe Schuerkamp    http://www.racesimcentral.net/
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Uwe Schuerka

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

by Uwe Schuerka » Sun, 06 Aug 2000 04:00:00



>On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 15:45:49 +0200, Ronald Stoehr

><snip>

>>Tyre wear IS simulated. Get with the program...

>If you mean in GP3, I'd have to agree. I have noticeably slower
>lap times after 12 laps or so at high wear circuits. I assume
>it's tyres - or my driving is deteriorating...  ^_-

>I suppose I ought to try pitting for tyres some time (I usually

I'm not on about some pre-programmed tyre wear (that even was
implemented in F1GP), but real effects according to the way you handle
the car. But as very much in that sim is preprogrammed instead of
simulated it makes sense to go that route with the tyres, too.

Uwe

--
Uwe Schuerkamp    http://www.schuerkamp.de/
GnuPG Fingerprint:  2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356  B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA
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Michael E. Carve

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

by Michael E. Carve » Sun, 06 Aug 2000 04:00:00


% >Tyre wear IS simulated. Get with the program...

% If you mean in GP3, I'd have to agree. I have noticeably slower
% lap times after 12 laps or so at high wear circuits. I assume
% it's tyres - or my driving is deteriorating...  ^_-

% I suppose I ought to try pitting for tyres some time (I usually
% run 25% races, due to time constraints, so pitting isn't really
% necessary to finish the game) to see if new tyres will push my
% lap times back up.

The question is.... is tire wear modeled and simulated in GP3 (i.e.,
flat spotting, abuse from agressive driving, etc.) or is the process of
tire wear in GP3 "artificially" modeled (for each lap grip is reduced by
x amount)?

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Martin D. Pa

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

by Martin D. Pa » Sun, 06 Aug 2000 04:00:00

On Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:54:14 +0200,

uncounted electrons thus:



>>If you mean in GP3, I'd have to agree. I have noticeably slower
>>lap times after 12 laps or so at high wear circuits. I assume
>>it's tyres - or my driving is deteriorating...  ^_-

>>I suppose I ought to try pitting for tyres some time (I usually

>I'm not on about some pre-programmed tyre wear (that even was
>implemented in F1GP), but real effects according to the way you handle
>the car. But as very much in that sim is preprogrammed instead of
>simulated it makes sense to go that route with the tyres, too.

OK

I confess my driving style is reminiscent of Graham Hill rather
than Jim Clarke...  ^_^

(ISTR that Hill went through tyres like mad whereas Clarke made
them last... and last... and last...)

Martin D. Pay
Not bothered either way, to be quite honest...

Ronald Stoeh

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

by Ronald Stoeh » Sun, 06 Aug 2000 04:00:00


snip

> I'm not on about some pre-programmed tyre wear (that even was
> implemented in F1GP), but real effects according to the way you handle
> the car. But as very much in that sim is preprogrammed instead of
> simulated it makes sense to go that route with the tyres, too.

I guess, I missunderstood. Flat spotting or driver induced tyre wear
(weaving) is obviously not implemented. Is there a sim that does?

--
l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Richard G Cleg

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

by Richard G Cleg » Sun, 06 Aug 2000 04:00:00


: The question is.... is tire wear modeled and simulated in GP3 (i.e.,
: flat spotting, abuse from agressive driving, etc.) or is the process of
: tire wear in GP3 "artificially" modeled (for each lap grip is reduced by
: x amount)?

  Somewhere in between I think - I don't think flat spotting etc is
modelled but fdifferent set up sdo change the rate of tyre wear.

--
Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
    Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
      Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
     UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

dirkairc..

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

by dirkairc.. » Mon, 07 Aug 2000 04:00:00





> > Has Greg Cisko, watched a real race on TV and seen how well the
cars grip
> > and are thrown around the corners????? GP3 goes closer to this than
other
> > sims that you have to be slow and careful on the bends. GP3 isn't
on rails
> > either... you overdo it and you pay, plus you can see and feel how
close
> you
> > are in the grip envelope. Best if Greg lets people make their own
decision
> > and stay off the NG. We will all run what we like and are happy to
give
> and
> > recieve constructive comments from anyone, so on that basis, Greg
isn't
> > welcome.

> Well who in the hell are you anyway?

> --


> 'Big' Tony must have driven lots of 'real' formula 1 cars so that

makes him the 'boss' so there....if you disagree with his opinion,which
is obviously right,he'll start throwing his teddy into the corner and
tell his mummy/parent/guardian.he might possibly even tell you that
your grammar and or spelling are incorect just to prove that he's your
superior.
take it from me when Tony tells someone off they really stay told
off,but good .......BLAH BLAH BLAH.................

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Before you buy.

dirkairc..

GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

by dirkairc.. » Mon, 07 Aug 2000 04:00:00



> Has Greg Cisko, watched a real race on TV and seen how well the cars
grip
> and are thrown around the corners????? GP3 goes closer to this than
other
> sims that you have to be slow and careful on the bends. GP3 isn't on
rails
> either... you overdo it and you pay, plus you can see and feel how
close you
> are in the grip envelope. Best if Greg lets people make their own
decision
> and stay off the NG. We will all run what we like and are happy to
give and
> recieve constructive comments from anyone, so on that basis, Greg
isn't
> welcome.





> > > Thanks for the read rrevved!

> > > I'm a hack at driving sims, and I certainly haven't raced but I'd
like
> to
> > > ask a question.
> > > Not trying to get into an argument between GPL and GP2 but the
physics
> in
> > > GP3
> > > seems to hold down the car extremely well if driven carefully.
Even in
> > > corners.

> > > Is this the downforce at work?

> > If you are going at high speeds yes. I think the wings don't have
> > much effect below 60mph (100kph).

> > GP2 truely felt like it was on rails (as in fake), and I would not
> > be surprised to find that GP3 inherited this um.. "feature".

> > --


> > > It's just that it feels soooo much different to GPL.

> > > Michael

> > > PS: I'm disappointed with a few things in the game but the
driving is
> fun!



> > > > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 06:29:42 GMT, "Danny"



> > > [snip]

> >Well tony you dont seem 'happy' to 'run with' Gregs personal opinion.

Have you been given the job of moderating this forum ? or is it you
just dont want to hear anything that you consider to be counter to your
opinion.

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