rec.autos.simulators

I`m thinking about buying a steering wheel to get the best out
of my racing sims (Gp2, F1RS and perhaps GPL). Which is the
best? Thrustmaster F1 got very good reviews. Is it worth spending
150 $? Do I need a camecard (now I got a Sb16) for best results
(as they say in the TM Homepage)? I`ve heard steering wheels
uses lots of CPU? (I got a Pentium 200 with Voodoo 1).
What about Force Feedback, are they any good FF systems?

Thanks!

Lutz

--
Home: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Steering wheels vary in price from $59.99 for the Thrustmaster NASCAR Sprint
wheel to well over $1,000 for an ECCI (Extreme Competition Controls Inc.). I
think the decision is best made according to how often you race, if you
compete offline or online, and how hard you treat equipment.

Personally, I compete weekly online on NROS and I take sim-racing fairly
serious. However, I'm not made of money so I've settled on a a Thurstmaster
T2 (~$90). I'm very easy on my stuff and I've only had to replace one spring
in over a year and a half of racing.

Another good product is the Thomas Super Wheel (~$220-$500). Go check them
out at (http://soli.inav.net/~thomas/) . Trevor Thomas is clearly a very
respected name in the Sim-racing business and his service is second to none
from what I've heard.

I use my wheel straight through my standard SB16 with no problems. Now I
must tell you I'm the slowest driver in the HAL league, but I think that's
more driver error than a problem with the soundcard.

Don't worry about processor cycles, I don't think a basic wheel will chomp
away that much from your P200.

<shameless plug> Microsoft is working on a Force Feedback steering wheel
that is a very nice unit. Their wheel is supposed to be available in the
next two or three months. </shameless plug> On the whole, Force Feedback is
still in its infancy stages and isn't widely supported yet. The main problem
is that developers haven't figured out how to get meaningful feedback to the
driver. Try MS Cart PR to get an example of current feedback possibilities.
You get some neat bumps and force but it doesn't really let you feel the car
pushing or getting loose.

Probably more info than you wanted but that's what I know on the wheel deal.

-/- Walk Walker
#0 Microsoft Sidewinder Chevrolet
Official HAL Backmarker
http://www.concentric.net/~walkwalk/default.htm

Trustmaster is a OK if you can only the the budget for it.  Personally I
broke 3 of them before I got a serious wheel.  Here is want I encountered.

1.   wheel tension bunggie get loose = no more self centering
2.   Potentiometer nut gets loose. = you will be turning the wheel to one
side to go straight
3.   Gas pedal spring break. =  Need to buy another wheel or find a special
spring at a machine spring shop
4.   Potentiomenter get worn out.  = Definitely a new wheel.

Got stick of fixing and buying new wheel.

Bought a ECCI-CDS for $500 and never have anymore problems.  I think it is
$600 for the ECCI-CDS 2 now.

If you are serious sim racer or test driver.  you will not regret to get the
ECCI-CDS.  It will last a life time in my point of view.  My friend used
mine for a while and then he bought one.

Here is a cheap reliable alternative. When my Trustmaster is down I like to
use a Joystick and Pedal combo.

Anyways have fun with your sims.

NO - The wheel/pedal set you refer to is not good at all.
These units have a good wheel, but the pedals are
disgusting (unusable in my opinion). I purchased one
and returned it to the store very quickly thereafter.
The Thrustmaster F1/Nascar Pro systems look good
but work poorly and many people report significant
reliability problems.

I race GP2, F1RS, GPL (Demo) and use a CH Racing
Wheel and a set of the standard CH Pedals. This set
is less expensive than the Thrustmaster F1, but works
extremely well. In particular, the CH Pedals are
extraordinary, they look like flight sim pedals, but
are perfectly designed for desktop sim racing. I have
owned these pedals for donkeys years and they are
bulletproof as well as working ten times better than
anything else on the market under $300.

I strongly advise you to try these.

John Cookson (Canada)

Actlabs has just come out with a Force Feedback wheel and pedals I think
there page is http://www.actlab.com/

It's not too expensive too.....

Saitek's just released a new wheel, also has a FF version. Has anyone tried
one yet?

Tim

% I`m thinking about buying a steering wheel to get the best out
% of my racing sims (Gp2, F1RS and perhaps GPL). Which is the
% best? Thrustmaster F1 got very good reviews. Is it worth spending
% 150 $? Do I need a camecard (now I got a Sb16) for best results
% (as they say in the TM Homepage)? I`ve heard steering wheels
% uses lots of CPU? (I got a Pentium 200 with Voodoo 1).
% What about Force Feedback, are they any good FF systems?

If you are being "budget-wise" (as your post seems to imply), then I
feel that the Thrustmaster line is your best choice.  If you don't have
budget concerns try some of the links at the end of this message...

You seem to be a Formula 1 fan so you may want to keep your eyes open
for the Formula Sprint (similar to the GP1 but also includes pedals).
However for a more robust setup (along with the ability to have your
brake and accelerator on separate axis -- a most in my books for GPL)
look for the Formual Pro (also includes a stick shift for driving antique
Formula 1 cars).

Thrustmaster should also have their Force Feedback out soon (Formula
Force GT).  

Thrustmaster has been listening and have spent alot more time "stress"
testing their new designs, running them over a quarter million cycles
with no signs of breakage (Formula Sprint/NASCAR Sprint & NASCAR Super
Sport -- the latter having a larger wheel for you stock car
enthusiasts).

Thrustmaster is very good about support (even beyond the stated
warranty).  Your biggest concern with their earlier lines should be
pedal spring breakage (they will send you free replacements).
Unfortunately their new replacement springs for the NASCAR/Formula Pro
line are too "mushy" for the accelerator (they last longer, but I feel
there isn't enough tension for controlling the car in F1RS & GPL).
Hopefully they will be sourcing once again improved springs.

Other alternatives:

  o Extreme Competition Controls
    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/extreme
  o Thomas Enterprises
    http://soli.inav.net/~thomas/index.html
  o Virtual Vehicles from Interactive I/O
    http://www.interactiveio.com

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% Trustmaster is a OK if you can only the the budget for it.  Personally I
% broke 3 of them before I got a serious wheel.  Here is want I encountered.

% 1.   wheel tension bunggie get loose = no more self centering

Easily fixed.

% 2.   Potentiometer nut gets loose. = you will be turning the wheel to one
% side to go straight

Easily fixed.

% 3.   Gas pedal spring break. =  Need to buy another wheel or find a special
% spring at a machine spring shop

Thrustmaster will send you replacement springs free of charge and they are
easily replaced.  No need to find special springs or buy another wheel
(unless one is looking for an excuse to do so -- may work with some wives,
but not mine! <G>).

% 4.   Potentiomenter get worn out.  = Definitely a new wheel.

Usually dirty, not worn out.  Again Thrustmaster will send you
replacement pots (though they aren't as easily replaced as pedal
springs).  Dirty pots can easily been cleaned with Tuner/Switch
cleaner.

Here are some good sites to visit about fixing or upgrading your
ThrustMaster Wheels/Pedals.

Alison's Racing Pages
T2 Wheel http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison/sims/t2.htm
GP1 Wheel http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison/sims/gp1.htm

Joeri J. Cox also has some great information at:
http://huizen.dds.nl/~jjcox/

For Thrustmaster repair and parts
http://www.thrustmaster.com/support/servmail.htm

<snip>

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I just found a review (German PC Games) of your CH Wheel:
Very solid but not very good steering (not precise enough)

Sounds not sooo good for me.

Lutz

--
Home: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/8059