rec.autos.simulators

by **Larr** » Sat, 28 Sep 2002 23:31:13

Again, I've got like 50 games and none of them have ever had an issue with
NTFS.

Including GPL. It's always worked fine for me on an NTFS system.

-Larry

> >NTFS is your friend...

> >-Larry

> Sure Larry, that's why I spent frustrating time trying to get GPL to
> run on NTFS. I know what the issue was now but back then no one knew
> why I couldn't get it to run. If Iwas using FAT32 I would have had no
> such problem. And there are games out there that won't even install if
> you are using NTFS. With XP I need all the game compatibility I can
> get and thowing NTFS into the mix is folly if you are a gamer. And I
> don't mean someone who runs a few racing titles.

by **Carl Ribbegaard** » Sun, 29 Sep 2002 22:31:01

> On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:31:03 +0200, "Carl Ribbegaardh"

> >I guess the problem was that you didn't have rights to write to the
folder,
> >right?

> No. I had turned off indexing and GPL will not install to an NTFS
> system if you turn it off. Strange, but true. That cost me a good hour
> or two in troubleshooting and researching the problem. Hours of my
> life that are forever lost and could have been spent doing something
> more worthwhile.

ROFLMAO!!!!!
I am running GPL on my XP pc, and I ran it under Win2k to.
I've always had indexing disabled.
Of course I'm using NTFS only.

Ok, so I cannot see that website if I'm using NTFS? ;-)

Seriously, could you point me to a game which doesn't work with NTFS, but
FAT on a Win2k/WinXP PC. Please back it up with some kind of proof.

/Carl

by **Haqsa** » Mon, 30 Sep 2002 00:59:05

I don't think indexing is the real problem. I don't know this for
certain, because I am still running Win 98 at home; however a friend of
mine had some difficulty setting up some games on his Win 2000 PC, and I
asked him to try something to see if it would work. I had this feeling
that the reason that indexing fixes some people's problems is that
either NTFS or NT based OS's, much like Linux, do not automatically
search the current directory like Win9x/DOS/FAT32 does. But many
programs written for the latter system, including installers, assume
that they can find things in the current directory without specifying
the path. So they fail when run under an OS that doesn't support that.
Indexing will prevent that from happening, but is not the best way to
fix the problem. I asked my friend to try adding ".\" to the path
environment variable, which should be the correct way under any MS OS to
tell it to include the current directory in the search path. I also
told him to try "./", "\.", and "/." just in case I didn't have the
syntax right. Not sure which one he ended up with (probably the first
one), but he did say that it fixed all of the problems he was having
with games. And he did not need to turn on indexing after that. Again,
I am not running this at home, so I can't tell you for sure which file
you have to modify. In DOS/Windows it was always in \autoexec.bat, but
I don't know where it gets set in NT based systems. Also, you will have
to reboot afterwards for it to take effect.

> > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:31:03 +0200, "Carl Ribbegaardh"

> > >I guess the problem was that you didn't have rights to write to the
> folder,
> > >right?

> > No. I had turned off indexing and GPL will not install to an NTFS
> > system if you turn it off. Strange, but true. That cost me a good
hour
> > or two in troubleshooting and researching the problem. Hours of my
> > life that are forever lost and could have been spent doing something
> > more worthwhile.

> ROFLMAO!!!!!
> I am running GPL on my XP pc, and I ran it under Win2k to.
> I've always had indexing disabled.
> Of course I'm using NTFS only.

> > >What game will not install on NTFS?

> > http://www.ntcompatible.com/

> Ok, so I cannot see that website if I'm using NTFS? ;-)

> Seriously, could you point me to a game which doesn't work with NTFS,
but
> FAT on a Win2k/WinXP PC. Please back it up with some kind of proof.

> /Carl

by **Carl Ribbegaard** » Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:09:32

Indexing has nothing to do with the "current directory" you are talking
about.
Indexing is just a service that is used by the file-search engine to make
file-searching faster.

/Carl

> I don't think indexing is the real problem. I don't know this for
> certain, because I am still running Win 98 at home; however a friend of
> mine had some difficulty setting up some games on his Win 2000 PC, and I
> asked him to try something to see if it would work. I had this feeling
> that the reason that indexing fixes some people's problems is that
> either NTFS or NT based OS's, much like Linux, do not automatically
> search the current directory like Win9x/DOS/FAT32 does. But many
> programs written for the latter system, including installers, assume
> that they can find things in the current directory without specifying
> the path. So they fail when run under an OS that doesn't support that.
> Indexing will prevent that from happening, but is not the best way to
> fix the problem. I asked my friend to try adding ".\" to the path
> environment variable, which should be the correct way under any MS OS to
> tell it to include the current directory in the search path. I also
> told him to try "./", "\.", and "/." just in case I didn't have the
> syntax right. Not sure which one he ended up with (probably the first
> one), but he did say that it fixed all of the problems he was having
> with games. And he did not need to turn on indexing after that. Again,
> I am not running this at home, so I can't tell you for sure which file
> you have to modify. In DOS/Windows it was always in \autoexec.bat, but
> I don't know where it gets set in NT based systems. Also, you will have
> to reboot afterwards for it to take effect.

> > > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:31:03 +0200, "Carl Ribbegaardh"

> > > >I guess the problem was that you didn't have rights to write to the
> > folder,
> > > >right?

> > > No. I had turned off indexing and GPL will not install to an NTFS
> > > system if you turn it off. Strange, but true. That cost me a good
> hour
> > > or two in troubleshooting and researching the problem. Hours of my
> > > life that are forever lost and could have been spent doing something
> > > more worthwhile.

> > ROFLMAO!!!!!
> > I am running GPL on my XP pc, and I ran it under Win2k to.
> > I've always had indexing disabled.
> > Of course I'm using NTFS only.

> > > >What game will not install on NTFS?

> > > http://www.ntcompatible.com/

> > Ok, so I cannot see that website if I'm using NTFS? ;-)

> > Seriously, could you point me to a game which doesn't work with NTFS,
> but
> > FAT on a Win2k/WinXP PC. Please back it up with some kind of proof.

> > /Carl

by **Biz** » Mon, 30 Sep 2002 02:53:13

> On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:31:03 +0200, "Carl Ribbegaardh"

> >I guess the problem was that you didn't have rights to write to the folder,
> >right?

> No. I had turned off indexing and GPL will not install to an NTFS
> system if you turn it off. Strange, but true. That cost me a good hour
> or two in troubleshooting and researching the problem. Hours of my
> life that are forever lost and could have been spent doing something
> more worthwhile.

Hours of your life you probably would have wasted playing games or smoking dope instead? What a
punk.
--
Biz

"Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and
the....." - Ash

by **Haqsa** » Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:36:51

Then why does it have any affect on programs? It appears to me like the
OS is using indexing to locate files also. What I am trying to say is
that if either NT based OSes or the NTFS file system imposes the
"feature", like *nix systems, where the current directory (default
directory if you prefer) is never automatically searched in response to
a command to execute a program, then there will be no way for that OS to
execute a program unless the command includes either an absolute or a
relative path name, or unless it has some other method for finding
files, such as an indexed file search service. And both games and
installers are programs that are likely to assume that their resources
are all in the current directory and therefore attempt to call them with
an unqualified file name. I have never seen a Windows or DOS program
refer to ".\myprogram.exe" instead of just "myprogram.exe". The former
is technically correct, and necessary in most "real" OSes, but the
latter was always allowed by DOS/Win9x. Anyway regardless of whether
I'm right about the reason or not, the fact remains my friend fixed all
of his problems by adding ".\" to his path variable, and has not had to
turn on indexing for any program. So my reasoning might be flawed, but
the fix still works.

by **Carl Ribbegaard** » Mon, 30 Sep 2002 19:18:53

Check out this article:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/TechNet/pr...
ol/winxppro/proddocs/path.asp?frame=true

You can also easily test your theory by doing the following:
1. Open a commandprompt by typing cmd in the "run prompt"
2. In the cmd-window, execute the following (one row at a time):

cd \
mkdir pathtest
cd pathtest
echo A little testfile > testfile.txt
testfile.txt

3. If your testfile is opened, probably in notepad, your windows work like
it should.
What you did was the following;
You moved to the root of a drive.
Then you created a folder called pathtest, and moved into it.
You wrote a textfile with the content "A little testfile", and finally
opened it.

4 You can take this test a little further by continuing with the following.
(make sure you are still in the pathtest folder)

copy %windir%\system32\calc.exe notepad.exe
notepad
cd..
notepad

5 This test should do the following;
First you copy the calculator but renaming the copy as notepad.exe in your
current folder.
Then you try to run notepad, but since there is a file with that name in the
current directory windows will use that instead.
This file is not a the notepad but rather the calculator, so windows will
display the calculator copy.
Then you exit the pathtest folder, placing you at the root of the drive.
From the root path you execute the notepad application, and since the fake
notepad-file doesn't exist in your current folder, the path environmantvalue
is used to find the application :-)

When you are done, delete the pathtest folder.

Cheers
/Carl

> Then why does it have any affect on programs? It appears to me like the
> OS is using indexing to locate files also. What I am trying to say is
> that if either NT based OSes or the NTFS file system imposes the
> "feature", like *nix systems, where the current directory (default
> directory if you prefer) is never automatically searched in response to
> a command to execute a program, then there will be no way for that OS to
> execute a program unless the command includes either an absolute or a
> relative path name, or unless it has some other method for finding
> files, such as an indexed file search service. And both games and
> installers are programs that are likely to assume that their resources
> are all in the current directory and therefore attempt to call them with
> an unqualified file name. I have never seen a Windows or DOS program
> refer to ".\myprogram.exe" instead of just "myprogram.exe". The former
> is technically correct, and necessary in most "real" OSes, but the
> latter was always allowed by DOS/Win9x. Anyway regardless of whether
> I'm right about the reason or not, the fact remains my friend fixed all
> of his problems by adding ".\" to his path variable, and has not had to
> turn on indexing for any program. So my reasoning might be flawed, but
> the fix still works.

> > Indexing has nothing to do with the "current directory" you are
> talking
> > about.
> > Indexing is just a service that is used by the file-search engine to
> make
> > file-searching faster.

> > /Carl

by **Jussi 'Igor' Koukk** » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 16:24:50

wrote something like this:

Defragments less? I seriously doubt it... fragmentation is IMO the
biggest problem with NTFS.
--
- Igor -

by **Jussi 'Igor' Koukk** » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 16:34:19

wrote something like this:

>>What sims do you own that run on WinXP with FAT32, but won't run with
>>NTFS?

>I can't remember exactly which ones now because I used NTFS once, and
>once only. But I do remmeber some that complained about not being able
>to install to WinNT. If you really want to search it out then go to

So the problem was the OS, not the file system?

On NTFS you can set the cluster size in spite of the partition size,
something that can't be done with FAT32. And I can fit my OS, programs
and games on a 10GB drive... that FAT32 must really be wasting your
disk space ;)
--
- Igor -

by **Jussi 'Igor' Koukk** » Tue, 01 Oct 2002 16:40:21

wrote something like this:

>>I have over 50 games, and not one of them has had an issue with NTFS.

>>-Larry

>Bully for you. My experience was otherwise.

You said you tried NTFS once, and that you couldn't install "some
game" cause it complained about the OS being "WinNT"... some
experience.
--
- Igor -

by **Larr** » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 04:59:33

I assume you are replying to Dameon ?

-Larry

> wrote something like this:

> >>I have over 50 games, and not one of them has had an issue with NTFS.

> >>-Larry

> >Bully for you. My experience was otherwise.

> You said you tried NTFS once, and that you couldn't install "some
> game" cause it complained about the OS being "WinNT"... some
> experience.
> --
> - Igor -

by **Jussi 'Igor' Koukk** » Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:18:00

something like this:

Yes, I was replying to Daemon's reply to you =)
(that's why my reply was below his reply ;)
--
- Igor -

by **Larr** » Thu, 03 Oct 2002 21:47:35

I thought so, just wanted to be sure :)

-Larry

> something like this:

> >I assume you are replying to Dameon ?

> Yes, I was replying to Daemon's reply to you =)
> (that's why my reply was below his reply ;)
> --
> - Igor -

by **Jussi 'Igor' Koukk** » Fri, 04 Oct 2002 16:24:25

wrote something like this:

>>Defragments less? I seriously doubt it... fragmentation is IMO the
>>biggest problem with NTFS.

>Go look it up if you don't believe me. Unlke you, I've done my
>research, And no, I'm not doing it for you.

Claiming that NTFS causes troubles with sims (or games in general)
really shows the level of your so called research. But, you're right
about the fragmentation, NTFS fragments less than FAT32 in general.

I doubted it cause my personal experience was exactly the opposite.
But as I was doing my "research" (=googling), I found out that on
partitions that are 80-90% full, NTFS defragmentation gets worse. My
10GB drive is usually quite full as you might guess... time to move
some more files to my "server" machine (=connection sharing, mp3
player etc) :)
--
- Igor -

by **Carl Ribbegaard** » Sat, 05 Oct 2002 04:26:59

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------
---------------------------
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/productdoc/en/default.a...

Like older versions of PQ magic? 3rd party defragmenters for FAT volumes?
Old norton utilities...
I seriously doubt you will ever dig up a game that will not run on an NTFS
partition if the game itself will run in XP.

/Carl

rec.autos.simulators

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?

XP NT file system and sims?