rec.autos.simulators

I realize many could think I'm trolling but here goes anyway.  I'm
interested in trying a racing game.  Previously I've only played
wargames, strategy games, and RPG's.  For some reason I'd like to try
a more action-oriented game hence I bought Half Life, but I'm also
interested in a racing game.  I downloaded a demo of NASCAR Heat, but
never managed to beat the clock on the very first test.  Finally I
gave up an saw Need For Speed High Stakes for $10, so I picked it up.
I knew it was more arcade than sim, but don't have very good results
with it either (weaving all over the road).

My question is can these things be played with a joystick.  Try not to
laugh but I'm using an $8 joystick my 7-year-old uses for Buzz
Lightyear (I said you'd think I'm a troll).  Is a wheel required to
play these types of games?  Any help would be appreciated.

Regards

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.

:
: My question is can these things be played with a joystick.  Try not to
: laugh but I'm using an $8 joystick my 7-year-old uses for Buzz
: Lightyear (I said you'd think I'm a troll).  Is a wheel required to
: play these types of games?  Any help would be appreciated.
:

This is all IMO, of course.

A joystick is quite playable for racing sims (think jet fighter in 2
dimensions).  I played/mastered TOCA Racing with a joystick then got a wheel
(actually, my wife got it for me for Xmas...).  I wasn't that much faster
with the wheel and that may have been due to practise with the game rather
than the controller.

Some of the fastest GPL players use a joystick (and pedals, though).  If you
can control a GPL car then anything is possible :-)

I find joysticks to be a bit too difficult to use unless I hold the "stick"
near the base - but that's me.  A wheel is, of course, far more immersive
but not an absolute necessity.

Dale.

Nope. I finished NFS3:HP, most of NFS4 (didn't get gold on all
tournaments), and NFS:PU with joystick alone. I also did well with
most of the rally games. This is with the good old trusty Thrustmaster
Top Gun joystick. :-)

--KC

Andre

It is certainly possible.  I started  out using a joystick before I got a
wheel and it took me a while to match my joystick times with the wheel after
I got it.

The biggest problem with a joystick, as I see it, is how to control the
throttle.  You can't realistically use a button because its only on or off
and and decent sim requires more delicate control of the gas and brake.  If
you use the forward and rearward axis of the joystick for throttle you might
find steering to be more difficult to do since you are trying to do two
things with one hand, and you are further forced to use either throttle OR
brake and can't use both together, which can be useful in some sims.

IF you can get a cheapo joystick with a separate throttle control you will
be getting closer to what you need, but I would still say a wheel/pedal
combo is the best idea.  Poke around on Ebay and you should be able to find
a great deal.  If you want to know the quality of a certain wheel, ask here
and you will get lots of opinoins!!

hope this helped,

~daxe

--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>

First of all, "welcome" to the sim racing community.

As the name implies, we don't "play" racing games per se, we "race"
simulations of real-world racing on our computers.  The programs we use come
in varied forms and formats.....and "yes" some of them are considered
"games."  But for the most part, even those have been "hacked" so that the
"game" parts are greatly minimized or removed all together.  The "equipment"
we use....ranges from simple joystick/keyboard combos......many started out
that way.....to very sophisticated racing frames and control systems for
desktop racing, all the way to full blown recreations of our favorite racing
car***pits (with working dash boards).  If you do some hunting/searching
around on the Internet (go to a search engine and just type in "sim
racing".....you'll have hours and hours of entertaining websites ....and
educational too.....to visit and enjoy).

If after doing this, you decide you might like to see what this sim racing
is all about, I would suggest you start out modestly in the following way
(remember, I know some people who have $20K just in their race car***pits
alone....another $10K in computer and sound equipment):

Go to a software store, or website and buy Viper Racing by MGI.  It came out
a couple years back, is very easy to install and will run on most computers
systems with minimum problems....and computer specs for this racing sim are
pretty easy to meet.  At the same time, make a small investment in a racing
controller (wheel and peddle system).  If you have USB ports on your
computer...which you should have....then I would suggest you consider buying
a Thrustmaster NASCAR Pro Digital-2 racing wheel and peddles.  It works very
well, is easy to install (relative to other controllers), is very adaptable
to many types of sim racing programs (the wheel has both paddle shifters for
F1 style, open wheel racing sims, and a separate stick shift for sports car
racing and NASCAR Winston Cup racing)....and very good peddles (brake and
gas).  They calibrate easily (especially in Viper Racing).....and the TM
NASCAR Pro Digital-2 wheel sells for only about $60 (retail suggested list
price....you may find it on the Internet for less).

Viper Racing can usually be found for around $10....so for well under $100,
you'd have a very good (and fun) way to run some computer racing....with
realistic car physics and a decent control system.....for several months of
fun and entertainment (be careful, you might get hooked).  I think most of
the veteran sim racers here would back me up on this conclusion?

After a few months....you'll know whether this is something you'd like to
consider doing as a "hobby-like" basis......and by then you'll have some
experience and some "knowledge" (keep coming to this newsgroup with your
questions....and just read and take in some of the information during this
two-month period)....and can move up from there if you want to.  But, Viper
Racing and a TM NASCAR Pro Digital wheel, would be an excellent
foundation.....and you'll learn sim racing in a fun and entertaining way, as
well as providing yourself with good basic race training which will serve
you well in the future....if you decide to keep up with this and make it a
hobby of yours.  If you do, there's a vast world of virtual, simulated
racing to be yours....if you want it.

Internet sim racing against other "human" drivers.....will eventually become
a professional online sport (it is approaching that status even today).  You
might not want to go that far with this....but even several levels down from
pro sim racing.....is a level of sophistication that still takes a few years
to work up to.  Just like in real-world racing, you can't just buy a race
car and expect to be a professional race car driver in just a few
months.....it just doesn't work that way.  You have to pay your dues, get
experience (spend inordinate amounts of your own money racing)......and then
get "lucky" to eventually become a professional race car driver.  Its not
all that different in online, Internet based, sim racing either.

This is just an example (and there are many "stories" like mine...even among
posts on this newsgroup today around yours.....of people who have come to
similar levels):

I raced in real-world racing for about 15 years (won two SCCA championships,
and drove for the BMW factory team in the ESCORT Endurance Racing Series for
three years.  I have race competitively at every US road sports car track,
most of the oval tracks and have done every 24-hour endurance style race in
the world except LeMans).  I was given a sim racing "game" as a joke from
one of my crew members, in 1995.  I didn't even install it on my computer
for several months....but when I did, I was hooked (this was a "sim" called
NASCAR Racing-2 by Papyrus).  Today, I make a full-time living in sim racing
(I don't work at anything else)......I own a sim racing based company that
builds, designs and rents racing simulators to corporations for trade shows
and conventions, and for employee "motivation fun days", we both build and
sell simulators and computer equipment for private individuals who want the
most and the best in sim racing equipment....that money can buy (our systems
usually sell for well into 5-figure amounts...averaging about $20,000 for
complete***pits and sophisticated, high-tech computers and
displays)....we've build a few systems for some of today's top professional
race car drivers....to "train" on...during the off-season.  That is the core
of my business, but we are also involved in many "off-shoots" and side
elements of sim racing, including software design, sound effects design and
sim program development.  I am a full member of IGDA (International Game
Developers Association) and attend most of the world's major trade shows for
the *** industry (E3 in Los Angeles being the biggest of these).  We are
still a very small, but rapidly growing company.  And....I still sim race
(online) almost every day!

This all started with one simple racing "game" (much less sophisticated than
the Viper Racing I have suggested to you above)....and an old analogue
racing wheel (a TM NASCAR Pro analogue controller...don't think they even
make it anymore).  There are people I race with regularly who are in their
early ***s.....and guys who I have raced with for many years who are in
their 50's and 60's (I'm one of those guys....lol).  I would guess the
average age of a serious sim driver....to be early 30's....but that is only
an educated guess.  This is not an "activity" only for kids.....not by a
long shot is this only for kids!

So, there you have it....the "possibilities" open to you are
endless.....almost.  Have fun....that's the key.....and if you want to give
this a try....go take my suggestions above and keep coming back here for
information.  Okay?

Regards,

Tom Pabst
Pabst-Racing

I used to do NASCAR with an el-cheapo JS and ditto the comment below,
hold the stick close to the base and you'll get more control...

FYI.. new race sim coming fairly soon that cries for a JS..

http://www.xtremeairracing.com

"Shortfork"
All Aviation FlightLine OnLine
http://aafo.com

I'd get Nascar Racing 4 if your computer is good enough and for sure get a
wheel. Get whatever cheap thing you can afford for now. I believe you can
get them for like $30-50 now. Go to www.nascar.com and look at the current
schedule of races. See what track is coming up and run some laps at that
track. Then watch the race on TV over the weekend. Then find an online race
at the same track. That should do it. <g>

Tom

As you have probably already seen from other posts here, you can use a
stick, but I thoroughly recommend a wheel and pedals. They enhance the
sim experience to the nth degree.

I use a homebuilt wheel and pedals that I originally made for GP2, and
I've used them on every driving sim I've tried since. IMHO, you can't
beat a wheel.

Cheers, Glenn

Thanks for your response.  One thing I don't understand, does the
wheel / pedal setup have a shifter?  If not how is this accomplished?

On another note if I wanted to use only the  wheel and not the pedals
is this possible.  I ask this to see if a 7 year old could play an
acade type, but he certainly couldn't reach the pedals.

|
| Thanks for your response.  One thing I don't understand, does the
| wheel / pedal setup have a shifter?  If not how is this accomplished?
|
| On another note if I wanted to use only the  wheel and not the pedals
| is this possible.  I ask this to see if a 7 year old could play an
| acade type, but he certainly couldn't reach the pedals.
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