rec.autos.simulators

Am I the only one or do others agree with me: I just compared MGPRS2 GLide
version to the DirectX version and find it really amazing the yeven
bothered porting it to DirectX!! I have a MonsterII (12MB) and an AGP ASUS
V3400 TNT card (16MB) used for the two respective versions and really find
the difference enormous (in favour of glide in case you didn't notice).
In fact I am a bit suspicious whether everything is setup correctly on my
system!

What's your opinion on this? Do you all favour Glide above DirectX?

Jan.

Glide is superior to DirectX, plain an simple. DirectX is intended to
provide global support for all 3D cards. Glide is written for a
specific chipset and is therefore able to take advantage of that
chipset. Look at any game that will allow you to switch between
DirectX/Direct3D and Glide and you will see a definite difference in
graphic speed and quality.

Todd

On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:40:53 +0100, Jan Hovius

Hi Jan I have just bought into the same combo U have a V2 and the
AsusTNT,   Now i just nead to know Which card is doing the work with
respect to the OpenGL apps ????
Thanks Craig

Nope, becuase Glide only provides graphics routines ;)

DirectX provides Graphcis, sound, input, & other features.

If you mean Glide V Direct3D, then the TNT in D3D wins hands down in image
quailty over a 3Dfx card in either D3D or Glide.

Bottom line is: D3D/OpenGl are multi-card API's. Glide is 3Dfx only- and on
the V3 specs.... 3Dfx is something to run very far from.

Z.

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Why don't you try F1RS and see how well a TNT does in D3D.

Unless you know what the heck you are doing/talking about. In that
case you will have a 3dfx of some type in your rig.

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

D3D is, DirectX isn't. D3D is only the graphics part of DirectX.
But I think you already know that, don't you :).

GPL does not have native support for D3D. If it would have, it would rock
the socks of of 3Dfx.

1600x1200 high enough? TNT does that already.

--
Ren van Lobberegt, The Netherlands.

Cheetah Racing :
    http://renevanl.www.cistron.nl/cheetah/index_nl.html

Personal site : http://www.toptown.com/INNERCIRCLE/1846/

AMCA web master : http://www.amcaracing.nl/

Glide is a thinner wrapper over the hardware.  The API fit well with the
then-current rasterization abstraction that many game companies were
using.  So Glide was very easy to incorporate into games back when 3D
acceleration was still a question mark.

D3D is a bit higher level abstraction.  And early D3D had an abysmal
interface for the programmers to work with.  MS listened to the OpenGL
proponents and now D3D is Good Enough from a programming point of view.

But, being a higher level abstraction that runs on a wide range of cards,
it's more difficult to get a game to look really good on all those cards.  
It'll look great on some and mediocre on others.  If the developers don't
have a great deal of experience working with the various 3D hardware then
they'll likely simplify their lives and write for the lowest common
denominator.  It's very likely that they can make Glide look noticably
better than D3D on the same 3dfx card.

So, it really depends on the game.  For some, Glide is better.  For
others, D3D is better.  Neither is inherently better than the other
visually.  There are pros and cons for the various APIs, including
OpenGl.  There are business pros and cons to releasing for a single-
vendor API vs the more generic APIs.

Me, I have a TNT and a Voodoo2.  For the past few weeks, the best of all
worlds.  I expect that to change in another week or two :-)

Mighty

D3D is a subset of DIrect3D. In any case, most Glide games use DirectX
components for other functions.

Clearly, i'm pointing out that D3D and DirectX are not the same thing.

Why, the TNT setup will run in much higher res that a V2 Sli setup. :)

and the price difference is around hmm  80 for a TNT 16mb, around 150 for a
SLI Setup.

Well, i've got a TNT and V2 Sli setup, and quite frnkly i know what i'm
happier running. The TNT wins hands down each time.

Z

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

D3D is one of the graphical components of DirectX, there's DirectDraw
as well. But I'm sure you knew... ;^)

The V2 SLI would run faster (even without socks)...

Great for screenshots! I'd rather have 36fps using 1024x768...

l8er
ronny

--
Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

I have a TNT AGP and 2xVoodoo2 in SLI. It's horses for courses. As far as fps goes nothing is
as fast as SLI - even TNT. TNT is better for colours, and much better for 2D (well V2 just
doesn't do it) and supports TV out etc. For racing SLI has to be better, you just don't have
time to admire the rich colours of the scenery and racing speeds - you just want fps and
resolution. TNT goes to 1600x1200 but the fps is insufficient to drive on in any game I play
regulary.
The next chapter will probably see a reversal. TNT2 will support SLI and probably be at least
as quick as Voodoo3 which will be hardly any quicker than Voodoo2. This is not surprising
since Voodoo3 won't really be Voodoo3 but Banshee2. Colours will still see NVidia ahead of
3dfx.
Cheers,
Paul

Hmm, you are getting a really good deal on your TNT and a really bad one on your V2. Last
week I bought both - can't remeber precisely but around 120 for SLI and 100 for the TNT.

Cheers,
Paul

As far as DirectX v Glide - of course, Glide is quicker and ever more shall be
so D3D uses not only uses COM (yuck) but also layers still more indirection
below that. Glide goes straight to the point. This is why Windows 2000 will
struggle to provide anything like the *** performance that Windows 98
(yuck) can provide. W2000, belonging as it does to the NT family of operating
systems, will not allow direct reads and writes to the hardware. Games will
have to go through the operating system for input and output. This is great if
you are terrified of security breaches or viruses and so good for business,
but for us gamers it is going to be a tough sale for Microsoft. Are we going
to have to bin all our old games? Are games developers willing to put in all
that work modifying their software so that they will now run slower. Sure
processors in 2002 (or whenever) are going to be quicker but who can remember
any game not benefitting from extra CPU. No matter how quick the processors
get there are always going to be uses more important from a gamer's viewpoint
than COM and NT. How about 8000 by 6000 resolution, 150 fps, 32bit colours at
these resolutions, modelling micro bumps on the tracks, etc etc. Need I go on?

Cheers,
Paul

I have PII 450 with a TNT AGP and one 12MB Voodoo2.  For GPL, is there any
benefit gained from having another Voodoo2 in SLI?  I know the max framerate
is 36fps, but is the startline framerate improved over a single Voodoo2?  Or
is the framerate at 1024x768 improved?

Thanks in advance,
Brian

I'm not completely sure because it's a while since I had a single Voodoo2 and
then it was only for a short time. Though through the hazy mists of time, I do
seem to remember a marked improvement. Without SLI, I often used to go over 36
fps, but with two it varies between high 35.xxs and 36.00. I think this is the
real limit. I get a consistent 36 fps at 1024x768 everywhere except at the start
and even then only if I'm not towards the front of the grid. I don't know
whether the start grid is CPU or graphics card bound so it maybe that you can do
a little better than me since I have a PII 400MHz. In other games SLI makes a
bigger difference since GPL limits fps to 36 for synchronisation reasons. Need
For Speed 3 (did I mention an EA title :-) ) and TOCA2 look gorgeous - worth it
just for graphics alone. MGPRS2 looks pretty good, very smooth, but the
resolution seems to be limited to 800x600. Viper Racing looks excellent and, as
I remember, delivers in excess of 40 fps in 1024x768. For non-racing titles,
there are a wealth of games that really use the full grunt of SLI. G-Police (the
one that comes with the cards in the UK) looks fantastic.
Cheers,
Paul

Ring 0 drivers are essentially part of the operating system. You're
quite right that applications (games especially!) should not write to
the hardware. That's one reason why drivers, and their attendant layers
of indirection, are flouted as good things.

How about Falcon 3? Ever hear of moslo.com?

I see now that I've contributed to a waste of bandwidth.

Michael.