rec.autos.simulators

by **NeedToKno** » Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:00:00

> subject: BETHSOFT: ThrustmasterT2 incompatible with X-CAR - Read!!

It's also incompatible with the T1 models. I tried the first demo which
came out about six months ago, and it didn't have this problem. Maybe
Bethsoft could fix whatever changed between then and now. I hope they
could do it soon!
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is greater, for each violation."

by **mack** » Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Well BETHSOFT can kiss this T2 owners ass !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> >> subject: BETHSOFT: ThrustmasterT2 incompatible with X-CAR - Read!!

> >It's also incompatible with the T1 models. I tried the first demo which
> >came out about six months ago, and it didn't have this problem. Maybe
> >Bethsoft could fix whatever changed between then and now. I hope they
> >could do it soon!

> No. They aren't going to fix it. As I said, they claim the game is fine,
its
> the Thrustmaster Controllers that are at fault.

> --
> / rrevved at mindspring dot com / (s.p.u.t.u.m.(unit.26))
> / "bob"'s ululating hyena battalion, yggdrasil element
> / http://www.sputum.com/suitsite

by **Barton Spencer Brow** » Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:00:00

The question is: What does Thrustmaster say about the problem?
--
Bart Brown

Give Gas Until You See Hell, Then Break!

by **Robert Huggi** » Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Probably alot.
This is almost too hard to believe. It is obvious from looking at the
thrustmaster performance in almost any calibration tool (Win'95,
Papyrus, CH, etc.) that it is providing linear control. How this
control is interpreted by the software is another question.
--
Best Wishes!!!
Robert Huggins
Raleigh, NC

by **Michael E. Carve** » Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:00:00

% The question is: What does Thrustmaster say about the problem?
% --

I have been in contact with ThrustMaster and they are attempting to work
with Betesda on this problem. They are aware of Bethesda's claim that
it is a ThrustMaster problem. I find this very strange, that T1's/T2's
& GP1's don't have this problem in other sims. This leads me to believe
as mentioned in an earlier post, that this a software problem.

If I hear anything at all, I will post here in r.a.s.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Clee** » Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:00:00

> % The question is: What does Thrustmaster say about the problem?
> % --

> I have been in contact with ThrustMaster and they are attempting to work
> with Betesda on this problem. They are aware of Bethesda's claim that
> it is a ThrustMaster problem. I find this very strange, that T1's/T2's
> & GP1's don't have this problem in other sims. This leads me to believe
> as mentioned in an earlier post, that this a software problem.

> If I hear anything at all, I will post here in r.a.s.

Better yet, if you hear anything, please let me know! I have heard
about this "issue" for a bit on this newsgroup, and am surprised at what
I hear. What is the particular problem that the T2 is having with XCar?
Who from Bethesda stated that there is a problem? Who at Thrustmaster
is in contact with who at Bethesda?

From what I know, T2 works with XCar, and in my opinion is the best
control method. I have personally played dozens of hours using this
peripheral, so I'm not sure where this complaint comes from, or if it is
simply a harsh rumor that is circulating. I would appreciate any
substantiated truths. If there truly is a problem then Bethesda will
address it to the best of Bethesda's abilities.

Carry on.

Clee

by **Ron** » Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:00:00

..snip

>: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 97 14:44:31 -0500
>: Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: X-Car: Steering dead-zone...
>:
>:
>: The problem that you are having with your steering wheel is very common. We
>: have tested the T2 with x-car and encountered the same problem. It is not a
>: problem with the game its the hardware, most of the T2's I've worket with have a
>: small to a significant dead zone in them, but cannot be fixed. It's simply a
>: hardware defect. If its too big of a problem, I suggest getting a ch steering
>: wheel, it's a much better product.
>: Tech Support
>==================== end =================================

This is simply incredible! A software company blaming one of the most
successful and popular controlling devices in existence! This is
purely BULL$HIT and is enough to personally keep me well clear of any
bethsoft product period! I'm sure glad I didn't waste my money on this
title (Xcar) with such non-profesional garb being spewed in the above
statement. As far as the logic in this statement, then how is it that
I can go countless laps in N1,N2,ICR, ICR2, MTM, ect... (the list goes
on) and have a very pleasing and responsive session with my T2? Oh,
BTW, I did try the XCAR demo and must say IMHO it is just a glorified
arcade game. Far from a sim even with all the setup options.

My $.03, keep the change!

Ron L.

Home of the SSC http://www3.pgh.net/~lazer/
For Nascar2 & Winston Cup Fans!

by **XRaceTr** » Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:00:00

>The address of the person that responded to me from Bethesda is:

>Here is his email to me. (I have changed my user name to
>rrevved at mindspring dot com to foil the spam.bots)
>>The problem that you are having with your steering wheel is
>> very common. We have tested the T2 with x-car and
>> encountered the same problem. It is not a problem with the
>> game its the hardware, most of the T2's I've worket with have
>> a small to a significant dead zone in them, but cannot be fixed.
>> It's simply a hardware defect. If its too big of a problem, I
>> suggest getting a ch steering wheel, it's a much better product.
>> Tech Support

This is lousy tech support. If the T2 has a "dead zone" with XCar,
the T2 will have a "dead zone" with ALL racing software. That's
just common sense... If this is what Bethesda calls "tech support",
I can live without them and Xcar...

I have had ZERO problems with my T2, even with the Xcar demo...
Sounds to me like they're in cahoots with "ch"... and I can now
safely tell you and Bethesda that I'll never know how it works with
the full version of the game...

- Mike.

====================================================
Mike Holthouse - Indianapolis, IN
I'm sick of spam!! To e-mail me, remove the "x"...
====================================================

by **SimRaci** » Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Seems like a witch-hunt's a brewing... ;)

PMFJI, but the only Bethesda words I've read, are those that

I'm not taking sides in this, but merely pointing out that the "claims"
made by the originator of the post is second-hand info (the original
Bethesda post wasn't posted here), so no real hard evidence
against Bethesda.

I'm not doubting whether the e-mail was a valid one, just that we
should ALL here it from the horse's mouth. John Lee visits here
frequently, so let's see what he can find out about what tech-
support said, shoulda' said, or didn't say.

FWIW, Bethesda has been working side-by-side with TM for
more than a year on this project, so I doubt something this simple
would have been overlooked (by either party). I too have run
X-Car using the T2, GP1, and even TM's upcoming FF wheel,
all with no noticable problems from the wheels.

There is however a problem with the control-input for X-Car (in
general), in that any controller will feel sloppy no matter the setup.
I've heard that the Arcade mode is a hoot, so I plan to put the
game through the wringer (again) this weekend...Perhaps this is
the key (albeit, not the desired one<g>).

Cheers!

Marc J. Nelson
Sim Racing Online / Sim Racing News / The Sim Project
http://members.aol.com/simracing

by **Doug Reichl** » Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:00:00

: This is simply incredible! A software company blaming one of the most
: successful and popular controlling devices in existence! This is
: purely BULL$HIT and is enough to personally keep me well clear of any
: bethsoft product period!

Well, this is just a classic case of Software people blaming Hardware
people, and Hardware people blaming Software people. This will ALWAYS be
true.

never get resolved since the hardware can say the software doesn't work,
but the software people can say it works with other controllers (ie CH) so
it CAN'T be software.

It'll be interesting how this works out, but don't hold your breath.

by **SimRaci** » Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:00:00

I really don't think you know what your saying. I have never
heard the claims you make above about support, and I think you
need to get a couple of basic facts in straight:

1) Did Bethesda (or Media Tech West) tell you they would NOT
support X-Car, or did you come up with this on your own? This
company has more to answer to than just their customers, and
after 2+ years of development they decide to release the game
without support, what would their investors say?

2) John Lee from Bethesda is becoming a regular around here,
and has even replied to this thread. I think you should stop and
and think before you post these untruths.

You're no doubt upset about the problems encountered with the
game, and it's understandable. However, posting info (above)
that isn't true is worse IMO than anything Bethesda is accused of
doing. Slander hurts everyone.

Obviously.

Marc J. Nelson
Sim Racing Online / Sim Racing News / The Sim Project
http://members.aol.com/simracing

by **Vic Lombard** » Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:00:00

>Sorry Clee, Bethesda refuses to acknowledge that they have a problem

No surprise. My dealings with Bethesda are that they have some of the worst
support out there and it doesn't look like they have improved. Give them
another 6-12 months and they'll tell you they don't even support the game
anymore (see their line of sports games). I would never buy another product
from them.

by **robert mrof** » Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:00:00

>..snip

>>: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 97 14:44:31 -0500
>>: Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: X-Car: Steering dead-zone...
>>:
>>:
>>: The problem that you are having with your steering wheel is very common. We
>>: have tested the T2 with x-car and encountered the same problem. It is not a
>>: problem with the game its the hardware, most of the T2's I've worket with have a
>>: small to a significant dead zone in them, but cannot be fixed. It's simply a
>>: hardware defect. If its too big of a problem, I suggest getting a ch steering
>>: wheel, it's a much better product.
>>: Tech Support
>>==================== end =================================
>This is simply incredible! A software company blaming one of the most
>successful and popular controlling devices in existence! This is
>purely BULL$HIT and is enough to personally keep me well clear of any
>bethsoft product period! I'm sure glad I didn't waste my money on this
>title (Xcar) with such non-profesional garb being spewed in the above
>statement. As far as the logic in this statement, then how is it that
>I can go countless laps in N1,N2,ICR, ICR2, MTM, ect... (the list goes
>on) and have a very pleasing and responsive session with my T2?

I am equally amazed. If any T2 has a significant dead zone problem, it
should manifest itself in the TMScope or any other diagnostic or
calibration routine (even the Win95 calibration). My T2 has never
displayed any such fault, so to label the problem as an endemic hardware
problem, together with the tech support guy's own personal endor***t of
a competitor's product is a pretty pathetic attempt to shift blame from
Bethesda, which should better direct its efforts to sift through its
software for the real source of fault. Hope Buzz rips 'em a new one, but
he prolly won't being the problem solver that he is. :-)

by **Gene Mille** » Thu, 18 Sep 1997 04:00:00

<snip>

Having been burned far more than one too many times I believe the story
and DID read the whole post in sordid detail. Bethesda and any other
software company that is out there and about to release DEFECTIVE racing
simulation software. I WILL NOT purchase your software and I hope only a
few in this newsgroup will get burned and the rest REFUSE to buy it. I
have just gone through this scenario with Psygnosis Formula 1 not being
able to select the joystick option. I received the first version with my
Hercules Stingray 128/3d and then bought the retail version when it was
released. Hercules tech support was great and said that yes, they too
had the same problem. Psygnosis then lied to me and then said there was
no problem until Hercules Tech Support reported the same problem and the
story changed and they would put a patch right out. That was TWO MONTHS
AGO. My son formerly worked for Thrustmaster and they supply the best
support and some of the best products in the business. Don't believe it?
Call them for parts and they send it right out.

I have waited a long time for a good sports car simulation and I'm
afraid if Bethesda won't fix their problem I'll still be waiting. Note
this Bethesda stock holders. MOST of us that play simulations use T2's
period. That's a big piece of the marketplace you NEED to sell to to
make a profit isn't it? Even if the "supposed" dead spot you say exists
did exist those of us who write software for a living KNOW you are lying
because almost ANY hardware problem can be programmed around. I call BS
a refuse to buy your product until it's fixed and you announce here in
this newgroup that it has been fixed.

Anyone else agree with me?

The foregoing is definitely my OWN opinion.

Gene Miller