> > > There is an awful lot of stuff on the West bros web pages about Racing
> > > Legends including details of how the products will be wrapped! Some
very
> > > nice pictures of cars a year or so (I guess ) after GPL but that
doesn't
> > do
> > > anything for the game, sorry, simulation. Is this another bundle of
hype
> > > like WSC, surely they are playing with us aren't they? Why do I need
to
> > know
> > > now what the add-on packs will look like, surely we want a game
> > (simulation)
> > > not a bunch of pretty boxes. Mind you theres a lot of vapour ware that
> > will
> > > fit in those boxes!
> > > Andi.
> > I met and spoke to both Chris and Tony at Goodwood. I was convinced that
> > they are completely genuine. After all what would be the point of
spending
> a
> > lot of their own money to produce some very smart flyers and even
smarter
> > information packs on vapour ware.
> > Having spoken to them and read through both the flyer and the info pack,
> I'm
> > sure they are ommitted to the project and genuine fans of sim racing.
They
> > are also investing a huge amount of their own time (12-14 hours a day)
> > coding RL with no income at the moment. Once again, why would they do
this
> > if they weren't going to release something?
> > I see RL as the sim racing equivalent of X-Plane, as do Chris and Tony.
In
> > case you aren't familiar with X-Plane, it is an advanced flight sim that
> can
> > model any aircraft that has been produced by one programmer. It has a
huge
> > following and is rated by a lot of people as being better than the MS
> Flight
> > Sim line. This is a proven business model that can work. We just need to
> > have a bit more patience.
> Phil, I don't mean single you out, but in one of your other posts you said
> one of the Wests told you that, "RL was nowhere near the beta stage."
> Whatever their point, they indeed seem to be spending a lot of money on
> Vaporware ;).
> I don't doubt their integrity or their intentions, but I am quite
skeptical
> that they can even come close to what they have promoted on their web site
> in any sort of timely fashion ...and some of the features that people are
> dreaming about sound like pipe dreams to me. This thing *is* intended to
run
> on PCs, correct?
> People on both sides of the issue are jumping way ahead of the starting
gun
> here. It seems to me, that if they are that far away from a beta, then I
> wouldn't doubt that the "Core" could be a full year or more away. Not to
> mention all of the free upgrades to include all of the standard features
> included in most games. I wouldn't be surprised if we are still waiting
> after 3 or more years for the "Standard Features" to be finalized (bug
> free), much less any of the Premium add-ons. Now, this isn't intended as a
> slam on the West's abilities or anything, rather just the way that I am
> approaching this whole thing. As you can tell, I'm not getting overly
> e***d just yet, heheh. I don't doubt that they will eventually release
> *something*, but when and exactly what it entails is another story all
> together...
> Although I don't really know anything about the Wests. What previous games
> did they code? Might I have heard of any of their previous projects? What
> company were they with before their Empire deal? I wasn't around sim
racing
> when the WSC whirlwind landed and evaporated, so maybe someone out there
can
> fill me in.
> I keep hearing about the X-Plane comparison. I don't know much about it.
But
> just on the surface, it appears to me that an advanced auto sim is
somewhat
> more complicated than a flight sim. I mean, you have the physics,
> aerodynamics, weather, etc., same as a flight sim, but then you also have
> complex suspensions and most importantly, the tire model. Then add in
> multiple surfaces and everything else mentioned on their site and I'm
> thinking it's going to be one ambitions project. Correct me if I'm wrong,
> but hasn't X-Plane been in development for years? Racing Legends may
> eventually end up being the "End All, Be All" of racing sims, but I won't
be
> surprised if doesn't take a while to get there with some misfires along
the
> way.
> The thing that concerns me is the way that they are starting out. They
seem
> to be trying to raise Venture Capital from their customers on the front
end
> with all the Fliers, Info Packs, selling the beta and proposing full price
> for a "Core" product with free upgrades available at some point in the
> future. I think that they are going to limit their market share
> significantly with this approach. They seem to be applying the full-blown
> Schmooze Deal like it's some sort of corporate sales pitch, but then are
> developing it on a shoestring. I think a lot of people are seeing the
> inconsistencies and it isn't garnering a lot of confidence with the
"Hopeful
> Skeptics." I think it would have been much better if they would have come
> clean with the community and said, "Look people, the deal with Empire went
> bad and WSC is no more. What we have now is the same modular, open-ended,
> high-realism Racing Sim Concept, but we are going to have to start this
> thing off small. I hope everyone who is interested will gather and support
> this effort as we really believe this could end up being something really
> special." The way they are doing it now appears to be nothing but Smoke
and
> Mirrors to many.
> If they then said, "We are very short of funds at the moment, so what we
are
> going to do is sell a "preview" version to those who want to support the
> development of this project. The fee will be counted towards the price of
> the full sim when it is released," I think it would have gained a lot more
> support throughout community. Not that it doesn't have a lot already, but
it
> could be better.
> Personally, I'm not much interested in paying any significant amount for a
> beta unless it is a true beta (full featured with only bug squishing to be
> done), and even then, I wouldn't take the hard-core professional
> exterminator approach, I'd just mostly be playing around like everyone
else,
> heheh. What I would like to see would be an installment payment method to
> match the "Evolution" of the game. I mean, charge maybe $20 for the "beta"
> and then charge $10-$20 for each upgrade all the way through v1.00. I'd
> probably be willing to spend $200 or so over a couple to three years with
> this method, whereas I'm rather unlikely to pony up $150 or so for only a
> "Core" with free upgrades to come at some "future date". Maybe they could
> employ both methods. Have an upfront fee of $150 (or whatever) that the
> "Faithful" could buy and get all the standard upgrades for free while
those
> on the installment plan would have to spend a total of $200 over the
entire
> development period. (The overall price of the installments would have to
be
> set beforehand so people would know what to expect.) The people paying
> installments would have the confidence that they will only be paying for
> what they know they want and can get out at any time, while those who pay
> upfront get a break for essentially loaning the West's a little Venture
> Capital.
> But, I'm sure they've already though of these things...
> Dave Boyle