rec.autos.simulators

Ok, so you respect someone who admits that he cheats.  Good for you.

What blinders?  He admits to cheating.  This does not make it ok.

Except in Real World racing, you don't hear too many teams admitting to it.
 Why not?  They don't want to be penalized.  Why would they be penalized?
Because it is wrong.

So far, he is the only one to fess up to it.  So, would you also respect
someone who stood up and said, ' Damn right I robbed that store '?  This is
a little extreme, but falls in the same category.  
In both cases, the person is still guilty.  No respect is due to either
one.

There are no _Grey_ areas here.  Just right and wrong.

What it all comes down to is sportsmanship.  Even the most competitive
racers MUST show a certain level of good sportsmanship, otherwise
everybody involved suffers.  I know Julian will want to say something
silly like You don't have any experience in "real" racing or something
like that.  I can assure you that I have, I have even done some cheating
myself in other forms of racing, but that doesn't make it right and I
see no reason at all to do it here.  There is nothing to gain.  I am a
very competitive person myself when it comes to racing, even on-line.
When you line up with me you better be ready for a battle.  I will be
happy if I finish up front, you won't.  You will expect to be up front,
because you were cheating.  What fun is that?  No matter how you justify
it, if you are doing things that are not intended to be legal, you are
cheating, and you are a cheater.  And if I had as much time into the
game as some of the faster drivers I would beat them whether they were
cheating or not.  That is because I have confidence in my driving and
wrenching, I don't need to hack.

Dana Bailes

.

     Do you race on HAWAII? I would like to know your HAWAII I.D. so
that if I ran across you in a series or pickup race I could say howdy.

     take care,

     tom
--
 _______________________________________________________________________

|                                                                       |
|    HAWAII resident since 9-18-95 / on-line handle: TCEckels           |
| 3RD COAST RACING runs in: Hawaii Ace League / Hawaii Cup Series       |
|                           Night Hawks League / Night Owls Series      |
| COAST2COAST RACING w/ Ken Hower runs in: Late Night With Dave Series  |
|_______________________________________________________________________|

I try to get on every few weeks, but the call from El Paso to Hawaii
central is just too expensive.  When I am there, I go under the name of
Chieftain.  I usually finish in the top 5, but this is because I take a
provisional, i.e. start last, and wait for the others to crash in front of
me. :-)  

Robert

You're right Robert, just right and wrong.  Cheating is wrong.   I don't
know why someone would want to win by cheating, you know you're not
better than the other drivers, just have better (equipment) let's call it.
  How good are the cheaters really?  Do they know.  Some may be vary good,
 and some may suck.  When I run Dega and can keep up with the best of
them.  I have seen 198.2++ , and never thought they were cheating, just
ran a better line.  But now I wonder if there are more than a few at Dega.
  I really don't run much at Dega anymore (mostly because of the wrecks
and bad decission by a few drivers trying to win at ANY cost).   I think
cheating is wrong and don't think I would even consider it if I could do
it.  

Just my 2 cents worth

       Higgy  

On 4 Nov 1996 19:09:17 GMT, "Robert Johnson"
[snip]

Robert,
 So you take the m***high ground and totally ignore the last
paragraph of my post.......
 Do you think sitting on the sidelines saying "cheater, cheater...you
are wrong, no gray " solves anything?
Let us say you are completely right ok? Feel better now?

 B eing right does not address the issue of an officially sanctioned
racing league and controls of a level playing field for competitors.
 Is the solution to castrate anyone who demonstrates that the system
falls short? In effect that is all Julian did, of his own accord. If
he said nothing and just did nothing then maybe I could join in your
song of he sux etc.
 The issue raised by Mr.Data was long over due in my book. . Julian is
no hacker by any means. Knowing what a hex editor is a putzing around
with it is not what I call a serious attempt to hack.  When the NRL is
official I will bet then we might see some real talented hackers.
  I for one no that there will be NO WAY that outside of a competition
center as I proposed, with Nascars computers and officials seeing the
competitors race will a bonafide fair race take place. Could anyone
respond to my thought?
 To the guy who says if papyrus can force an ace setup they can do
anything, take a class cause you do not have even a slight clue of
what can be done by some. Id software put thier entire line of
products on one CD for ten bucks. All you had to do was call and get
an unlock code after they got your credit card info, sounds like a
great idea right? The CD generates a random 10-12 digit code only good
1 time, well anyway within 2 weeks of its realease it was cracked lock
stock and barrel. Hmm I am sure some where there was a guy like you
saying it is totally safe.( I bet he needs a job now )

RacerX

Actually, I thought I did address you last paragraph.  But here it is
again.  An admitted cheater is still a cheater.  Why respect that?
Externally modifies the program, then blantly announces the fact, then
sticks his tongue out at everyone and says' Papyrus didn't say I couldn't,
so therefore I can.'  Where is the respect due?

Actually, no.  But condoning the act of cheating, as is your policy, only
encourages others to do the same.

This doesn't get past the BS detector.  He wasn't exposing an area where
others cheated.  He said here is how I go fast, just break out the hex/text
editor.  He still hasn't said it was wrong.  He is still saying ' Rules?
What rules? '  It doesn't say I can't, so therefore I can. '  He isn't
doing it to expose any weakness in the system, just to be first.

Never said he sux, or even sucks, only that he cheats.  Oh BTW, cheating
does suck.

And will you condone that cheating as well? Are you saying it is ok to
cheat, as long as you admit to it?

Yes, when you join the race, have NRL make everyone use the same Carset and
Track.Txt file.  This should be easy enough to check.  If the racer's files
do not match the race ones, either boot them off or upload the 'official'
files to their computer, then use those.

I am sure there are hackers out there who can do a lot, but some credit
needs to go to the guys at Papyrus as well.  We are talking about hacking
something while online, not over a few hours, or days.

And as long as the person who cracks it admits to it, it is ok, right?

Happy Lappin'
Wade Tschida