rec.autos.simulators

IMS could easily argue that by giving THEIR (not Papyrus') property away
freely, you damaged THEIR (not Papyrus') ability to earn income from the
sales of their upcoming game(s).

Sega's license with ISC (Daytona) grants them exclusive rights to use
the track.  They paid dearly for those rights; don't you think they too
would be angry if someone were distributing a free version of Daytona
for a competitor's game on the 'net? And, if someone did the same for
Indy, wouldn't they too be angry that the rights they bought were being
undermined by someone with "less than perfect morals?" (quoting John
Logan).

God Bless,
Steve

                I'd like the floor for a moment to ad my two cent's on
IMS for ICR1. All the self proclaimed lawyers seem to forget one
thing. The bottom line in any trade infringment comes down to
damage caused from lost profits. Since the INDY500 track pack
for ICR1 is no longer being manufactured or distributed or sold
in any way shape or fashion. The point is moot, if someone
wants to make available a product that no longer exists on
the market to other for free, have at it, and you can take that
to the Supreme Court. However, if IMS is smart they should
negotiate a new deal with Papyrus to both remanufacture
and redistribute the product or a whole new deal to revamp
the Indy500 track pack and include all four versions on
one CD. I for one would be more than willing to shell
out my fair share for such a product say $20 bucks a pop.

                        Thank you for your time!

                                Knaughtfaulk

A) The track pack may not be commercially available but
INDY's trademark and likeness are still being marketed
quite heavily (as if it really mattered). IMS may want some
money for it's use. A potential licensee may not be inclined
to pay as much (or at all) for the rights if there's already a
bunch of guys pirating the property.

B) The track pack is still the intellectual property of Papyrus.
I believe, at the very very very least they could stop people
from distributing it and help pay thier legal fees. I'm sure
they could conjure up a few reasons why they lost revenue
or couldn't get a license from IMS or the track competes
with thier new products or... who the heck knows... strange
things go on in court rooms.

I'm not saying you won't get away with it. That all depends
on the owners of the property. But I will say "Always consult
your lawyer before stealing".

Sounds good to me.

Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

The point is not moot because IMS is still a trademark owned by Tony
George.  You could also cause lost profits to ABC's IRL game, which
has licensed IMS.  Sure you're not hurting Papyrus's profits, but they
aren't the only ones with something to loose.

Jason Reineri

. The bottom line in any trade infringment comes down to

Is that called "Public Domain"?

The Hammer

---Jim

While 'sounding' correct in part that since the product is no longer
available there can be no damages in the form of 'lost profits'...you
must also consider IMS' (or Daytona's) likely position that it is
cheapening their ability to market/license a future product bearing
their likeness. Sierra/Papyrus could also challenge on like grounds
arguing that they have been pursuing (or considering pursuing) a
licensing agreement with those entities and would've expected sales of X
at $Y ea. net profit, but because of 'insert name here' bootlegging of
the product thay have 'lost' X*Y dollars and..... errrrr you get the
idea ;o)

Alan
http://www.kiva.net/~akh/simshop.html

...of course I'm not a lawyer...
don't even play one on TV ;o)
-----------------------------------------------

        Jim, I probably agree w\ what your saying, but could you at least back up
your claim that Kongeldugaldorkinfaulk is "full of shit" and why IMS isn't
"public Domain,"

thanks,

--Kai (Equally Full of shit) Fuller :)

For those of you still contemplating it, chapter 5 covers Copyright
Infringement and Remedies.

Nothing in the code provides a means for a work to become "public
domain" which applies to the IMS track pack. For a work to become in the
public domain, the copyright has to expire (75 years from the date of
first publication; and I KNOW damn well it wasn't published in 1921 or
earlier...) or the copyright owner has to explicitly place the item in
question into the public domain. There is no provision in the code for
"really, really honestly and truly wishing it was in the public domain,
since I can't buy it in a store anymore..."

Now, does anyone from the other side care to make a citation that
implies it IS in the public domain? Didn't think so.

---Jim Sokoloff

You all are barking up the wrong tree here.  Posting tracks from games
that are no longer being sold has something to do with trade infringement,
and it does have an effect on a product no longer in circulation.

        Papyrus still has the right to sell the Indy500
track pack to some other distributor if they no longer wish to support it.
Every "free" posting of this track devalues the price of the product, sold
or unsold.  

        And this still has nothing to do with copyright.  Copyright is
the expressed legal ownership of any product, which gives all rights to
the copyright holder.  Any breach of this is a Federal offense, punishable
by $1000 fine per offense.  Papyrus is bound by the Federal copyright
laws to protect their copyright, otherwise they risk losing the rights to
that
product all together.

--
**do not reply to email address in header**

??Jan Kohl??        **The Pits Performance Team**

Computer Systems Programmer
USAF Air-Ground Operations School
Hurlburt Field, FL

Castle Graphics - http://www.castlegraphics.com/
The Pits - http://www.theuspits.com/

You're correct in all aspects except the dollar amount. For "willful"
copyright violations, the statutory damages are up to $100,000 per
offense. For non-willful, the statutory damages are $500 to $20,000
per offense. If the court finds that the infringer was unaware of the
copyright violation, and had no reason to believe their use was
infringing, the court may reduce the statutory damages to not less
than $200.

I don't see how any court could find that a person illegally
distributing the tracks could be "unaware" that they were copyrighted
material.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/504.shtml

---Jim Sokoloff

unless thier a minor then what would hapen then? I don't think much could
happen at all.

With great respect,
Good race at the Brickyard,  (-o-)    

SPEED- Co-director
SPEED- Cars, WC, BGN, Trucks, IROC, utilities and more...
SPEED- http://www.sim-speed.com/

Lieutenant Nien Numb, Gold squadron NSWL
http://www.dpliv.com/dragon/Gold/index.html  
May the force be with you, always!!

- *Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking) * -

<<If a newbie would tomorrow post the Indy trac in r.a.s. , I would
flame him,

With great respect,
Good race at the Brickyard,  (-o-) >>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me nobody else sees the unbelievably thick-headed irony in this
post...

Bart Brown