rec.autos.simulators

Thanks Marty, but I think Grant nailed it actually. His account tends to explain what
I'm talking about. It doesn't seem like a case of the back end stepping out due to
partially broken traction - more like a case of greater front end grip that I guess would
be accounted for by what I labelled "accidental 4 wheel steering" in a response to Grant's
post.

well, i wouldn't call it accidental 4 wheel steering. I thought that
this was what people called "drifting"? or is it "4 wheel drifting"?
or "power drifting"? i don't think it's quite power sliding since
the rear wheels aren't really actually wheelspinning. I'm a little
light on the proper terminology of motor racing. :)

I'm glad you found it useful:)

Grant.

On 4 Sep 1998 00:37:23 GMT, "Phillip McNelley"

Naturally not. This has little to do with feel and a lot to do with a
fear of hurting or killing yourself, and to a lesser extent of hurting
your car and your wallet. I would also guarantee that the majority of
people never approach anything like the limit in their road car, and
yet happily hurl their GPL Lotus 49 into a corner with utter abandon.
Remember how slowly you drove when you first got into a car, and
remember how long it took to feel confident and build up even to the
speed limit? That step is utterly missed in GPL, with people smoking
the tires out of the pits within 5 seconds of their ***touching the
seat. The limits are there, this is obvious from the number of people
who demonstrably have utter control within the sim, they just have to
be learned.

An interesting experiment to try with the full release will be to take
some of these "fast guys" and get them to race in a 50% distance race
with full damage and no Shift-R. It's truly amazing how that focusses
your mind back on to the one issue that is fundamental in a real car
and totally lost in a sim - DON'T CRASH! I've done quite a few 50%
races in GPL and even some 100% races while testing the AI, and the
concentration even around Monza is incredible. I've been 20 or 30 laps
into a race and clipped the apex kerb at Curva Grande, locked a wheel
at Lesmo1 or outbraked myself at Parabolica, all resulting in the end
of my day. Not so much driving differently, but you really have to
think differently in order to keep going and be in with a chance. In
online testing more races have been lost than won, with people
hotlapping off into a big lead then bouncing into the sh***y and
throwing away the race. Alison always does really well in our online
races, since although she is on the pace when hotlapping for grid
positions, she drives within herself in a race and hardly ever makes a
mistake. My results improved a lot when I took that info on board and
drove cleanly rather than quickly.

This is something which is in every sim Papy have released AFAIK, the
onset of sounds effects is slightly advanced to compensate for the
loss of "seat of the pants" feel which would otherwise be your first
indication that something was wrong.

Quite apart from questioning if it is necessary (since I and many
others feel totally comfortable with the language of GPL) I wonder
when I'd have a chance to look at it!

I think this may be just lack of practice, and/or the fact that the
setup cannot be tweaked to suit your style. I have difficulty driving
a heavily understeering setup, and I am seconds off the pace if I use
one simply because the car doesn't talk to me or react in the way I
expect. That causes loss of confidence on my part. Hopefully with the
full release you'll speaka da lingo in no time.

Cheers!
John

I suspect this is the case.

Agreed. I hope to be able to race either on-line or networked with
some friends in due course. I don't know if it'll work well trying to
race folks in the USA or Europe when I'm here in Australia though.
I'll certainly give it a try but may have to settle for more localised
races.

I used to network NASCAR 2 with some friends. Its certainly great fun
to race real people. And just like you say. With other humans in a
"real race" situation, care and patience are the orderof the day.

I think this is probably what produces the greatest sense of
not-feeling-right for me ATM. As an avid Gp2 driver, no-aids and
no-steering-helps, I rely a lot on, and am used to, the tyre sounds
which Gp2 uses to a much greater extent. Gp2 starts off with very soft
hushes of squeel which progressively incresse until you loose traction
altogeather. When you sit on the edge and push it around a corner you
can actually chirp along the way. A delightful touch I always feel
when driving like this. In Gp2 if your tyres arn't howling through the
corners you're not close enough to the limit.

GPL seems to use sounds to a lessor extent and differently at that.
It'll simply take some getting used to but I'm optomistic about it
based on what other people have had to say.

Pehaps as a driver aid at least.

It'd have to be a periphial thing. Pehaps high on the screen in
simulated LEDs. I never really look at the rpm lights in Gp2 but I
always know what they're indicating.

I suspect this also. The number of posts by numerious people such as
yourself who say only good things about the sim must have some
substance behind them. I'm sure I'll cotton on to it in time. The next
issue is do I have the hareware for it ? By what I read my Intel 233
MMX 64mb with the Rendition 2100 ( diamaond stealth 2 S220 ) should be
at least OK with some graphics reduction. If not I'll need to think
about a AMD K6-2 perhaps and a Hercules Thriller. But I'll try with
what I have in the first instance.

Best Regards

Phillip McNelley

Grant, very insightful and impressive post, then again it isn't the first time
I've been impressed by you :o).

/Christer
--
http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone
has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o))