rec.autos.simulators

Well I have had this wheel for about 2 months and it is great in ICR2
and works ok in NFS,  but I can't figure out a good calibration strategy
for CPR. It seems that this controller likes to use the steering on the
x-axis of joystick 1  and the z and r-axes of joystick 2 (at least in
ICR2).  Is there any way to use 3 axes in CPR?
    I have tried the calibration techniques described in the Readme file
for all 4 listed controllers.
    I also tried my old setup for NFS which doesn't allow simultaneous
gas and braking (the game doesn't.)
    Most of the setups I have tried result in all gas and brake mapped
to same pedal. This makes it "impossible" to ease off the gas without
hitting the brakes and spinning the car.   I am stuck running with
auto-brake on and am missing the sim quality of the game.
    Please help!

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:53:06 -0500, David Baumgarner

Not to belittle the lack of controller configurability; this is a major
oversight, but CPR has very serious problems which seem to go deep to
the core of its physics engine, in addition to graphics which are
markedly inferior to the current state of the art, strangely distorted
tracks, and numerous other problems.

I wasted many hours trying to get CPR to run right, and after I did, I
wasted many more hours trying to find the vaunted "sim quality" of this
game.  I'm a very persistent person, and I really wanted this to be a
good sim.  It took me a long time - and some exposure to a truly great
sim from another manufacturer - to admit to myself that CPR just doesn't
make it.  In evaluating the recent patch, I found myself repulsed by the
car's comical behavior, the bizarre tracks, and the gloomy, dull, blurry
graphics.

If you're looking for sim quality in a formula car racing game, I'd
recommend you stop wasting time on CPR and try to get your hands on a
copy of Ubi Soft's F1RS.  Call 1-800-UBI-SOFT and pester them to import
a great big batch of 'em so more people can race this incredible sim.

Alison

I found a setup that is working very good.
1) In Win 95 game controller setup choose ''Thrustmaster Formula T1/T2
without adapter''
2) Uncheck Poll with interrupts enabled
3) Uncheck ruder pedals
4) In Cart customize controller check swap pedals with no throttle control
5) And finally don't give any car control to any button 3,4,7,8
Have a nice race
 Now I am not sure if it will work with your exact set up but I am sure if
you search this Apex site or other CPR sites you will find a set up that
works.

As far as this goes I found the graphics in CPR using a STB AGP card much
preferable to the cartoonish look of " current state of the art whatever"

And if you still want to get your hands on this " quality piece of crap" I
have a like new in box F1racing for sale as I dont have any use for it.
Just pay me what I paid from interact less my shipping but plus yours & I
will send it. Mike

Your dislike of CPR is obvious. One question I must ask though is if
you think your views as a "hard core" simmer are clouding your
judgement in terms of this games other benefits aimed at newbies such
as myself.

 As a newbie I'm enjoying the hell out of the fast menus, the race
engineer assistance, the racing school, I also have fast graphics
being blessed with a 3dfx and PII 266 etc etc. The sense of speed is
great fun.

The pitfalls most people complain of I have not seen and if I had, I
would  not have the skill or understanding to even note their
existence.

I guess I'm coming from the viewpoint that CPR represents different
things to different people. At some point in time I might become
proficient enough to see a full race out even :).  I know for a fact
however that I'll never truly appreciate a sim unless I have driven a
real race car and can then judge a sim in comparison.
Those of you that have, have a distinct advantage over the rest of us
that wouldn't know the feeling of a "trailing brake" if it stood up
and bit us. Some of you have even driven on the tracks that are
portrayed in the game. (make that a hugh advantage).
It is a bit presumptuous to assume everyone does have this experience
and as such should not enjoy the game because is does not portray this
to the nth degree.

Yeah, I like CPR, I also like Cart Racing, especially that book
"Winning", I also play F1RS. Do I know what I'm doing?, not yet.
However for what its worth, I muck about with CPR the most because I
like the feeling of speed and I can zap sdrawkcab and forwards testing
setups quickly, and learning the ropes.

Your statement below that  "CPR has very serious problems which seem
to go deep to the core of its physics engine"
seems way over the top, and I for one, haven't a clue what on earth
are you talking about.

Perhaps in the end I'm suggesting your comments and responses should
be in more in sync with the realization that this is a game, and that
the majority (?) of people playing/reading  will not understand where
your coming from.
I for one, would benefit more from this approach then from your hard
core angle.    

Best, Dave.

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Well said.

True.

<grin> Well, you said it, not me!  May I suggest kart racing?  Cost is
very reasonable compared to other forms of racing, and karts provide a
fantastic education in both vehicle handling and in dealing with
traffic.  A wonderful alternative would be three days at a racing school
like Skip Barber or Jim Russell.  You could do a season of kart racing
or a 3-day school with Skip or Jim for about $2000 to $3000 - just about
the the cost of a good game computer!  <grin>

Well, this is a crucial aspect of race car driving.  You go into the
corner straight, leaning *** the brake, and as the car slows you
eeeaase off the brake, and then gently begin to turn the steering wheel
in towards the apex.  The weight transfer to the front wheels has made
the rear wheels go light, and this helps get the car rotating.  As you
finish trailing off the brakes, the car is pointed at the apex and you
can start squeeeezing in some throttle.  

This technique fills the "friction circle" invented by Mark Donohue.
This means that at every instant, you are using all of the grip
available from the tires, first in a longitudinal direction as you're
braking, and then smoothly transitioning to lateral as you trail off the
brakes while turning in.  This is the fastest way into many corners and
sets you up for a fast exit.  For more info about the friction circle,
order a copy of Paul Van Valkenburgh's "Race Car Engineering and
Mechanics" from www.amazon.com.  It's under $20 and well worth it.

Note that to do trail braking, you need a basically understeering setup
and precise control over brake balance.  One of the lovelier things
about ICR2 is that you can create a setup that's perfect for trail
braking.  Shane Pitkin is a master at this, as is Jake Myers, and
driving one of their setups on a street or road course is an absolute
joy for an ol' racer like me.

One of the things I like about F1RS is that you can trail brake its car
too.  It's harder than in ICR2 because the car is so light and its
reactions are much quicker, and also perhaps because the current state
of development of setups for F1RS is much less refined than that of
ICR2.  But you can do it, and it's lovely when you get it right.  The
two Rivazza corners at Imola come to mind, as well as the slow corners
in the infield of Estoril.

Yes.  That's one of the reasons why I spent so much time at Mid-Ohio in
CPR, because I've driven a lot of laps there myself in a real car.

Sorry if I offended you.  I do come from the perspective of an
experienced racer both in real world cars and in a variety of racing
sims.  I appreciate sims which evoke the same sensations and echo the
vehicle behaviors which I recall from real racing.  In good sims like
ICR2, GP2, and F1RS, I am continually amazed at the incredibly realistic
things the cars do at the limit and when I go over the limit.  In CPR, I
am continually frustrated by the vast gap between the game car's
behavior and what I recall from real cars.  That's at the root of my
disenchantment with CPR.  To me, in the most critical aspect of a sim,
it fails miserably.

See my web page for more details about CPR's vehicle dynamics and how it
differs from F1RS:

  http://www.racesimcentral.net/~alison/sims

Go to the first page of the CPR review, and about two-thirds of the way
down the page, just before "Other Clunks", click on the phrase "brutally
convincing realism".  You'll get a page on which I discuss some of the
behaviors in F1RS which strike me as so realistic.

There's also a lengthy discussion of CPR's vehicle dynamics in my
detailed analysis of CPR, but I wrote this at a time when I was rather
Quixotically hoping MS and TRI would fix CPR well enough so I'd like it.
Rereading it at this point, the tone seems embarassingly positive to me.
Still, it does elaborate on a number of issues I have with CPR's physics
model, although it doesn't hint at the revulsion I felt when I went back
to CPR after having gotten used to F1RS.

Eagle Woman

Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me.
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~alison

Alison,

I too have some racing experience.  My uncle use to build NASCAR
Modifieds (I got to drive a few in non-competition), raced SCCA Sport
2000 and GT-1.  Yes...  Karting MUST be cheaper than that!! ;)
Luckily... I knew a wealthy individual who had health problems and
couldnt race for some time and let me run his car.  Fortunately... I
never seriously damaged them.  Although I did my share of rubbing
fenders in GT-1.

I always had a problem with trail breaking consistently.  I could do it
well a few times... then I totally blew my line and Apex =)  Its like
toe and heel.  I could do it, but not consistently.  Lets just say I
always pushed a car pretty hard and wasnt what I would call a racer who
"took care of his equipment and saved it for the end of the race." =)
One area I needed to improve on.  Hopefully in a few years I can come up
with the resources to get back into SCCA (convince my wife I should say)
=).  I would love to run one SCCA Trans-Am race before I die =)  Of
course I need to take all my post-college weight off and get in shape
=)  

Scott

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