rec.autos.simulators

by **Kevin Earl** » Sun, 18 Aug 1996 04:00:00

NO, you're not the only one! I put in my two cents on this topic everytime
it comes up (and even when it doesn't :-) ) I would quit playing NASCAR as
soon as a good drag racing game came out. Maybe that's why Papyrus hasn't
done it.

You better watch out talking about making a drag racing game on here,
though. People will say, "What fun is it driving in a straight line?
There's no skill in that." Obviously, these people have never seen a
national drag racing event live. Once they do, I think they'll understand
what they've been missing out on. Once they smell the nitro methane and
feel the thunderous noise of two top fuelers running side-by-side down the
quarter mile in under five seconds with every bone in their body, they'll
want a drag racing game for the computer just as much as you and I (and
many other people) do.

I like NASCAR and everything and I admit that I have never seen a NASCAR
race live (although that may change when the go to Texas next year), but I
think it is boring driving around in circles a few hundred times. For sheer
power and speed, you can't beat drag racing.

Kevin

by **B.J. Vost** » Sun, 18 Aug 1996 04:00:00

> > AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO WANTS TO SEE AND PLAY A DRAG RACING (EVEN
> > 'GOOD' STREET RACING) GAME OUT HERE? PLENTY OF VARIABLES AND
> > OPTIONS...
> > -NHRA fuel cars
> > -pro-stock/pro-street cars (some big name publication w/interests in
> > street car shootouts could pony up the references)
> > -tutorials on what to add to the cars (aftermarket companies could
> > familiarize consumers w/their products...in an unbiassed fashion)
> > -blah,blah,blah
> > COME UP W/YOUR OWN INPUTS AND CONTACT THE SOFTWARE COMPANIESAND TELL
> > THEM TO CONTACT THE PUBLICATION/AFTERMARKET COMMUNITY TO TEST THE
> > WATERS...FOR THE GOOD OF ALL!!

> NO, you're not the only one! I put in my two cents on this topic everytime
> it comes up (and even when it doesn't :-) ) I would quit playing NASCAR as
> soon as a good drag racing game came out. Maybe that's why Papyrus hasn't
> done it.

> You better watch out talking about making a drag racing game on here,
> though. People will say, "What fun is it driving in a straight line?
> There's no skill in that." Obviously, these people have never seen a
> national drag racing event live. Once they do, I think they'll understand
> what they've been missing out on. Once they smell the nitro methane and
> feel the thunderous noise of two top fuelers running side-by-side down the
> quarter mile in under five seconds with every bone in their body, they'll
> want a drag racing game for the computer just as much as you and I (and
> many other people) do.

> I like NASCAR and everything and I admit that I have never seen a NASCAR
> race live (although that may change when the go to Texas next year), but I
> think it is boring driving around in circles a few hundred times. For sheer
> power and speed, you can't beat drag racing.

> Kevin

The game would be boring, repetive, etc. I mean, what can you do? Tinker
with the car in the garage, then accelerate when the green light comes
on? That's all that's involved in Drag Racing. Maybe sometimes you'd
try to save the car from losing control but that's the only skill
involved.
--
B.J.

Dole/Kemp in '96!
I hate the Macarena!

by **Mark Holm** » Sun, 18 Aug 1996 04:00:00

AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO WANTS TO SEE AND PLAY A DRAG RACING (EVEN
'GOOD' STREET RACING) GAME OUT HERE? PLENTY OF VARIABLES AND
OPTIONS...
-NHRA fuel cars
-pro-stock/pro-street cars (some big name publication w/interests in
street car shootouts could pony up the references)
-tutorials on what to add to the cars (aftermarket companies could
familiarize consumers w/their products...in an unbiassed fashion)
-blah,blah,blah
COME UP W/YOUR OWN INPUTS AND CONTACT THE SOFTWARE COMPANIESAND TELL
THEM TO CONTACT THE PUBLICATION/AFTERMARKET COMMUNITY TO TEST THE
WATERS...FOR THE GOOD OF ALL!!

by **Ron R.** » Mon, 19 Aug 1996 04:00:00

>> AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO WANTS TO SEE AND PLAY A DRAG RACING (EVEN
>> 'GOOD' STREET RACING) GAME OUT HERE? PLENTY OF VARIABLES AND
>> OPTIONS...
>NO, you're not the only one! I put in my two cents on this topic everytime
>it comes up (and even when it doesn't :-) ) I would quit playing NASCAR as
>soon as a good drag racing game came out. Maybe that's why Papyrus hasn't
>done it.
>You better watch out talking about making a drag racing game on here,
>though. People will say, "What fun is it driving in a straight line?
>There's no skill in that." Obviously, these people have never seen a
>national drag racing event live. Once they do, I think they'll understand
>what they've been missing out on.

Actualy, I've been to events and it seems to me that fairly often drag
racing is anything but in a straight line ;-)

Boring? Ah, if you are ever in Oregon, drop by willamette speedway on
a fri night for sprints and a sat night for late model alchy powered
800 horse oulaws and after the third one goes over the wall at 80mph
methinks you'll never see roundyround as "boring" again.
(again ;-) )
Of course one thing dirt track and drag share in common.
NO > TURN. :--)
Ron

***********************************************
** Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down **
*** Ron "Cougar" Riekens II ***
**** Owner - Driver ****
**** Medallion Motorsports/*** Photography ****
*** NASS ARCA Series #96 Pontiac ***

***********************************************

by **John Wallac** » Mon, 19 Aug 1996 04:00:00

Unfortunately these are the two things which can't be simulated, the
smell and the noise rattling their body.....

_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________

\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | <
/ :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

by **Mark A. Fiel** » Mon, 19 Aug 1996 04:00:00

>The game would be boring, repetive, etc. I mean, what can you do? Tinker
>with the car in the garage, then accelerate when the green light comes
>on? That's all that's involved in Drag Racing. Maybe sometimes you'd
>try to save the car from losing control but that's the only skill
>involved.
>--
>B.J.

>Dole/Kemp in '96!
>I hate the Macarena!

I sort of agree, and I also disagree in some ways. I agree that nothing much could happen
in the game, just accelerating. But, you must also learn to shift and keep the thing
on course.

BTW: I think the Macarena sucks as well!!!

Mark Fields

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Cheers!
Mark Fields

NASS '96 Driver
Web Sites:
http://www.git.net/simspeed - Simspeed's World Wide Web Site
http://www.skn.net/~twburgess - Mark's Index Page
http://www.skn.net/~twburgess/nasicr - NASCAR Racing/Indycar II Sim Page
http://www.simspeed.com - Coming Soon!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

by **John Wallac** » Mon, 19 Aug 1996 04:00:00

Hey! There's a track in Oregon?

Excuse my ignorance, but being from Scotland I don't have much of a clue
about distances there. I visit Portland (actually Vancouver, WA) once
per year or more on business, and it might be kinda fun to see these
just to prove to myself once and for all if I would like them! I've
taken in the Portland Indy race a few times, but how far would I have to
travel to Willamette?

I've driven out to Cannon Beach once or twice, is it further than that?

Yours curiously!
John

_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________

\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | <
/ :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

by **TOBY BRANFO** » Tue, 20 Aug 1996 04:00:00

JW> >Once they smell the nitro methane and >feel the thunderous noise of
JW> two top fuelers running side-by-side down the >quarter mile in under
JW> five seconds with every bone in their body, they'll >want a drag
JW> racing game for the computer

JW> Unfortunately these are the two things which can't be simulated, the
JW> smell and the noise rattling their body.....

I've often wondered what would be the "game" in a drag racing sim - where
the fun, the player input, etc would come from. And for that matter,
what sort of feedback would the sim give?

My impression is that it wouldn't be a great game or a great success.
It's easy to see for a driving/race game what can be put into it and
what comes out - and GP2, ICR2 and NFS demonstrate good examples of
different lines of thought here.

My impression from a couple of games programmers is that one of the main
arguments against a bike racing simulator has been its "difficulty" -
even if the programmers understand bikes themselves (if they did they'd
never tilt the horizon, like a fixed camera view does - watch a helmet
camera view if you've never ridden!) the difficulty in simulating the
feedback from the tyres, the effect of your weight distribution and lean
angle is as-important as the handlebar position in steering, etc.

I'd LOVE to have a good bike racing simulator, but I'm not sure how it
can be implemented as a playable and entertaining game, let alone as a
reasonably accurate sim. I wish the rumour of Crammond doing a WSB sim
would become reality - but I'm not sure how even he'd handle it.

And if a bike race sim seems hard, what's you do with drag race sim???

Cheers!

---
* RM 1.3 U0414 * thi i YoUT mooeM 0U oTUg

by **Markus Strob** » Tue, 20 Aug 1996 04:00:00

> JW> >Once they smell the nitro methane and >feel the thunderous noise of
> JW> two top fuelers running side-by-side down the >quarter mile in under
> JW> five seconds with every bone in their body, they'll >want a drag
> JW> racing game for the computer

> JW> Unfortunately these are the two things which can't be simulated, the
> JW> smell and the noise rattling their body.....

> I've often wondered what would be the "game" in a drag racing sim - where
> the fun, the player input, etc would come from. And for that matter,
> what sort of feedback would the sim give?

I used to have a street racing game on my old C64. You got some money to
start with, and a newspaper with classifieds. Then you bought a car and
started modifying it. You could also paint it and put decals on it to
personalize it. After that you drove out to the local hangout and started
challenging people to race. You had to make a decision if you dared race
a guy (just how modified is that car). Then you raced him and if you won
you had some money to modify your car further. The goal was to beat the
'king of the hill' and his car.

I loved that game.

Markus Strobl 96 Z28 Modified, of course! :)

by **Ron R.** » Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:00:00

>I used to have a street racing game on my old C64. You got some money to
>start with, and a newspaper with classifieds. Then you bought a car and
>started modifying it. You could also paint it and put decals on it to
>personalize it. After that you drove out to the local hangout and started
>challenging people to race. You had to make a decision if you dared race
>a guy (just how modified is that car). Then you raced him and if you won
>you had some money to modify your car further. The goal was to beat the
>'king of the hill' and his car.
>I loved that game.

>Markus Strobl 96 Z28 Modified, of course! :)

That sounds alot like Revel's Backroad racer for the pc.
You pick one of 4 cars, select what options you can afford, have a
time limit to get to the track. On the way there you have to watch
for cops and the driver you will race usualy pulls you over to goad
you some. If you win you get there car or keep yours. Kinda lame and
arcadish but not to bad if you get a good deal on it.
Ron R II

***********************************************
** Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down **
*** Ron "Cougar" Riekens II ***
**** Owner - Driver ****
**** Medallion Motorsports/*** Photography ****
*** NASS ARCA Series #96 Pontiac ***

***********************************************

by **TOBY BRANFO** » Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:00:00

MS> > I've often wondered what would be the "game" in a drag racing sim
MS> - where > the fun, the player input, etc would come from. And for
MS> that matter, > what sort of feedback would the sim give?

MS> I used to have a street racing game on my old C64. You got some
MS> money to start with, and a newspaper with classifieds. Then you
MS> bought a car and started modifying it.......

I get the idea. In other words, with a drag racing sim the actual thrash
is only a small part of it.....a game more like GP Manager than GP2,
yes?

This I can see working - a "strategy" game rather than a driving sim.

Cheers!

---
* RM 1.3 U0414 * SYSTEM ERROR - Coffee Not Found : Operator Halted!

by **Kevin Earl** » Thu, 22 Aug 1996 04:00:00

The "game" in a drag racing sim would be the car setup and testing on the
track, just like NASCAR. There could be many different classes, such as Top
Fuel and Funny Car down to Super Comp and Super Gas, each having their own
characteristics. There could be both bracket and E.T. racing along with
standard heads-up racing. You could get 4 qualifying rounds, including one
at night to make the ladder of 16...if not, it's onto the next race. You
could have multi-player (well, two player) drag racing, along the same
lines as Hawaii, but not near as requiring on the hardware as Hawaii. You
could run the qualifiers then set up the ladder of 16 racers on-line.
Because of only having to keep track of two cars at a time, it could
probably even be played over the Internet, unlike multiplayer NASCAR.

Plus, it's a good way to beat someone one-on-one in racing without having
40 other people getting in your way causing stupid accidents.

The game you are probably talking about is called Street Rod. I have it on
the IBM. It covers cars up to about a 1963 Vette. It has old Crown Vics, 32
Fords, and other old Chevys, Pontiacs, etc. You could win other people's
cars by beating them at the road course. "The King" drove a '63 Vette and
you had to beat him at the strip and on a road course to win the game. I've
beat it many times.

There was a sequel to Street Rod, Street Rod 2 which covered cars from the
60's. "The King" this time is in a '69 Shelby. Among car choices are a '65
Mustang fastback, two Vettes, a '63 and a '69, a Nova, a Falcon, and so on.
You had to beat the King at the strip, in an aqueduct race and on
"Mullholland Drive", which I've only finished once, only by going slow to
make all the turns. I've never beat that game, needless to say. There are a
better choice of engines, transmissions, etc. to modify the car. There is
also a grudge night, which is a E.T. racing night at the drag strip, which,
like real life, is very easy to beat with an automatic transmission.

The drag racing in this game was barely decent at best. A real, licensed
and sactioned NHRA drag racing game is what I really want. I want to be
able to beat a simulated John Force and run Kenny Bernstein in the Bud King
down into the 4.60's at over 310 mph. That's racing to me.

Kevin

by **mos..** » Thu, 22 Aug 1996 04:00:00

> The game would be boring, repetive, etc. I mean, what can you do? Tinker
> with the car in the garage, then accelerate when the green light comes
> on? That's all that's involved in Drag Racing. Maybe sometimes you'd
> try to save the car from losing control but that's the only skill
> involved.
> --
> B.J.

> Dole/Kemp in '96!
> I hate the Macarena!

OK .... I've let the discussions on Darg Racing sims go by before but it's
asinine comments like these that I see over and over again from totally
clueless morons when it comes to Drag Racing that really get me pissed.
First off, I love NASCAR but all you are doing in it is going around in
circles turning left (unless your at SP or The Glen) and maybe you go into
the garage and tinker with the car a little. Sounds a bit boring, repetitive,
etc. HHHMMMMMMMMMMMM ..... That comment sounds a little familiar, doesn't it?
As far as just accelerating when the green light comes on .... if you do
it that way, I guarantee that you will be putting your car on the trailer
after your first race nearly EVERY TIME. Especially if any sim that might ever
get made includes Pro Stock or Sportsmen classes. These races are won/lost on
your reacton time at the start and your margin of victory/defeat can be as
little as 1/1000th of a second. Plus, miss a shift even by a little and
your gone.
As far as just trying to save the car from losing control .... answer me
this. You're driving a Top Fuel car and as you leave the line at full
throttle you lose traction and you're tire go up in smoke. What do you do? Let
off the throttle all the way? Pull the brake lever? Let off the throttle
partially? and for how long? Any combination of the above? OH, did I mention
that your opponent is also having traction problems (must've been that oildown
in that lane the previous race) so now you might be able to win this race.
Damn, all this in the first 2-3 seconds of the race. Decisions, decisions.
And what's your fuel ratio, clutch settings, wing settings, supercharger
overdiven/underdriven, oil pressure, fuel pressure? Are you racing during the
day or at night? What are the atmos[pheric conditions? Are you racing at Indy,
Denver, Houston? Just as in the other sims the tracks are totally different.
Some bumpy, some smooth. Indy's located at 700ft. elev but Denver is over a
mile in elev. Big difference there. How would you set up a car to transition
from a concrete starting area to an asphalt remainder of the track.
Damn, sounds to me like it's getting to be a little more complicated than
just 'accelerating when the green light comes on'.

Now before all the NASCAR guys say that it's more than just turning left and
tinkering in the garages. I KNOW IT IS. I have been around cars and racing
for nearly twenty years and know what's involved. I've used F1GP, GP2, NASCAR
and ICR so I know what those sims entail. I just get pissed when I see the BS
like what many people post here when arguing against a DR sim is what they
see/hear from the popular media.

For those wondering about the traction loss scenario .... I would not go from
full throttle to no throttle in a fuel motor if my tire were smoking. That is
unless I wanted to***of my crew chief, owner and entire crew by detonating
an engine and turning it into a $40,000 pile of s***metal.

peace,

mitch

by **B.J. Vost** » Thu, 22 Aug 1996 04:00:00

> > The game would be boring, repetive, etc. I mean, what can you do? Tinker
> > with the car in the garage, then accelerate when the green light comes
> > on? That's all that's involved in Drag Racing. Maybe sometimes you'd
> > try to save the car from losing control but that's the only skill
> > involved.
> > --
> > B.J.

> > Dole/Kemp in '96!
> > I hate the Macarena!

> OK .... I've let the discussions on Darg Racing sims go by before but it's
> asinine comments like these that I see over and over again from totally
> clueless morons when it comes to Drag Racing that really get me pissed.
> First off, I love NASCAR but all you are doing in it is going around in
> circles turning left (unless your at SP or The Glen) and maybe you go into
> the garage and tinker with the car a little. Sounds a bit boring, repetitive,
> etc. HHHMMMMMMMMMMMM ..... That comment sounds a little familiar, doesn't it?
> As far as just accelerating when the green light comes on .... if you do
> it that way, I guarantee that you will be putting your car on the trailer
> after your first race nearly EVERY TIME. Especially if any sim that might ever
> get made includes Pro Stock or Sportsmen classes. These races are won/lost on
> your reacton time at the start and your margin of victory/defeat can be as
> little as 1/1000th of a second. Plus, miss a shift even by a little and
> your gone.
> As far as just trying to save the car from losing control .... answer me
> this. You're driving a Top Fuel car and as you leave the line at full
> throttle you lose traction and you're tire go up in smoke. What do you do? Let
> off the throttle all the way? Pull the brake lever? Let off the throttle
> partially? and for how long? Any combination of the above? OH, did I mention
> that your opponent is also having traction problems (must've been that oildown
> in that lane the previous race) so now you might be able to win this race.
> Damn, all this in the first 2-3 seconds of the race. Decisions, decisions.
> And what's your fuel ratio, clutch settings, wing settings, supercharger
> overdiven/underdriven, oil pressure, fuel pressure? Are you racing during the
> day or at night? What are the atmos[pheric conditions? Are you racing at Indy,
> Denver, Houston? Just as in the other sims the tracks are totally different.
> Some bumpy, some smooth. Indy's located at 700ft. elev but Denver is over a
> mile in elev. Big difference there. How would you set up a car to transition
> from a concrete starting area to an asphalt remainder of the track.
> Damn, sounds to me like it's getting to be a little more complicated than
> just 'accelerating when the green light comes on'.

> Now before all the NASCAR guys say that it's more than just turning left and
> tinkering in the garages. I KNOW IT IS. I have been around cars and racing
> for nearly twenty years and know what's involved. I've used F1GP, GP2, NASCAR
> and ICR so I know what those sims entail. I just get pissed when I see the BS
> like what many people post here when arguing against a DR sim is what they
> see/hear from the popular media.

> For those wondering about the traction loss scenario .... I would not go from
> full throttle to no throttle in a fuel motor if my tire were smoking. That is
> unless I wanted to***of my crew chief, owner and entire crew by detonating
> an engine and turning it into a $40,000 pile of s***metal.

> peace,

> mitch

Still, I'm sorry, If a Drag Racing sim came out, I would not buy it. I
find Nascar races/Indycar races exciting because it is simply not going
around in circles, like Drag racing is not really going in a straight
line. In both sports skill is involved, but my point is drag racing is
5 seconds, and then it's over. The majority of times it's just who's car
doesn't blow up on them/doesn't break down etc. I've seen some NHRA
events on ESPN, and I couldn't watch for long. It's just a 5 second
thrill with 5-10 minute breaks in the action to get the cars up to the
line for another 5 second race. I know you'll disagree with me, but
it's my opinion that a Drag Racing sim would only appeal to die hard
NHRA fans, not sim racing fans. I may be wrong, but that's what I
think.
--
B.J.

Dole/Kemp in '96!
I hate the Macarena!

P.S.- Anybody want a World Of Outlaws sim?

by **B.J. Vost** » Thu, 22 Aug 1996 04:00:00

> > > I've often wondered what would be the "game" in a drag racing sim -
> where
> > > the fun, the player input, etc would come from. And for that matter,
> > > what sort of feedback would the sim give?

> The "game" in a drag racing sim would be the car setup and testing on the
> track, just like NASCAR. < Snipped whole response except for the above sentence >

Actually, to me the car setup and testing is not the game. I'm a garage
novice, because the only things I can do is cure overrev and tire wear.
I fully rely on other peoples setups. The game to me is racing around
the track, managing pit stops, racing aggressively to grab 1st with a
few laps left, and fighting to get my lap back. That's racing.

--
B.J.

Dole/Kemp in '96!
I hate the Macarena!

rec.autos.simulators

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!

DRAG RACING GAMES??!! Lets go!