rec.autos.simulators

by **Joachim Trens** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 03:04:01

Yesterday during the Dega practice I noticed that while I was drafting with
someone, quite frequently cars behind me instead of staying in the draft and
trying to make the group faster, dove down entering T1 or T3 using the
excess speed they got from the draft and basically squeezed me out of the
draft.

I remember in GPL Dega races I always waited until the very last lap before
attacking as usually, due to the draft, the car you just passed would get
its position back easily within a lap or two by playing the same game in
reverse. So what's the purpose behind this tactic?

I'd like to ask the experienced SS drivers among you, is that a game one
should play in the race (trying to squeeze the guy ahead out of the draft)
all race long, or is that something that should be left to the last lap(s)
when setting yourself up to be in a good position for crossing the s/f line?

Achim

by **John Pancoas** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 00:13:38

For me, depends. If it's for the lead, i.e., and I'd like five points for
leading a lap, might try it if it's safe, etc. Another scenario where I do
it is if, say, there's some cars behind you. Get under the guy ahead, and
you can freight train him to the back.

I normally like to just ride around, try to stay in the top ten, until
late in the race though. Unless it's something along the examples above, it
doesn't serve much purpose really.

-John

by **Don Burnett** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 00:12:23

Heck no, that is the problem with the plate tracks, too many impatient
drivers that want to get to the front. I guess they don't realize that if
they eventually get to the front there will be another train that drafts
right on by them.
I have been racing since Hawaii, and have always found the best thing to do
at the plate tracks is to just get settled in, passing only when really
necessary, find a guy or two that will hang with you, and enjoy the race. I
would much rather finish 5th at a plate race than get taken out by folks
trying to go for the win early on.
I was having a really good race early on with a couple of guys, who were
patient and we all settled in. If not for the cautions, we probably would
have pulled away into about a 4-5 car pack.
Patience is the key to these races, settle in and be patient, and let the
rest take care of itself. You'll have much funner races that way, and really
that goes for about any track..

Don Burnette

by **Goy Larse** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 00:15:11

> Yesterday during the Dega practice I noticed that while I was drafting with
> someone, quite frequently cars behind me instead of staying in the draft and
> trying to make the group faster, dove down entering T1 or T3 using the
> excess speed they got from the draft and basically squeezed me out of the
> draft.

> I remember in GPL Dega races I always waited until the very last lap before
> attacking as usually, due to the draft, the car you just passed would get
> its position back easily within a lap or two by playing the same game in
> reverse. So what's the purpose behind this tactic?

> I'd like to ask the experienced SS drivers among you, is that a game one
> should play in the race (trying to squeeze the guy ahead out of the draft)
> all race long, or is that something that should be left to the last lap(s)
> when setting yourself up to be in a good position for crossing the s/f line?

I've never been particularly good at the SS, give me a road course any
day :-), but I've always figured that the first 90% of the race was
about staying out of trouble, working with others and maybe making a
break for it if possible if you find a pack of drivers willing to work
with you, I usually don't pass cars unless they're actually slowing me
down or driving badly, and even then I only do it as a self preservation
thing, don't want to lose the draft or get caught up in a wreck

Last night I was in a 4 car group that worked very well, for what little
green flag racing we had at the time, it was led by GrantR and nobody
even attempted to pass, I was the tail car and we stayed in line, or as
in my case drifted to the outside a little bit once in a while to slow
myself down without having to lift (can't believe how bad the throttle
response is at the plate tracks), worked very well and we did some
decent lap times, of course we weren't breaking away from anything since
we were running 10th-13th or something at the time :-), but it looked
like we were gaining on the cars in front

Of course, when you have this many yellows, it's a moot point really,
all you have to do is keep you car in one piece and you'll eventually
catch up to the field again during a yellow

With Dega and Daytona, it's not possible for a single car, or even two
cars to get away from the field, assuming we're dealing with half decent
drivers here, at Atlanta, Texas or Cali I can understand trying to get
up fron and making a break for it, but at the plate tracks we run flat
out all the time, and with fixed setups and all the chassis being equal,
noone has an advantage anyway

On the other hand, I've only ever won 2 races at Dega....:-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Ed Whit** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 00:22:02

Joachim, there is, as I see it, a two pronged answer to this:
1. Patience is a virtue that not all of us were born with, it seems, some
folks just have to go to the front, regardless of how risky/inconsiderate
the maneuver may be, and yes, we often pass them right back at the next
opportunity, or when they crash (more than likely). These same moves may be
perfectly acceptable towards the later stages of a race, but during the
beginning/middle stages are just uncalled for.
2. That being said, it IS almost always safer at the front of the pack, not
that you're any less likely to be involved in a racing incident, but because
you won't be part of the pack that is racing headlong INTO the carnage at
180+ mph when the incidents occur.....the part that bothers me about your
description of the passes was that people were diving down into the
turns......this is a recipe for disaster, as the car ahead may just decide
to come down on his normal line as usual, or, just as likely, the car doing
the diving can either touch the apron and slam back up into the pack, or
just plain have to slide up the track to make the turn, either way he'll
probably find his competitors up there, and you all know the rest. I find it
easier to setup a pass coming off the turns, drag race down the straight
alongside so your position is clearly known, and take the spot entering the
next turn......of course, with 1-2 laps to go, all bets are off.
You did say that this was happening during practice, and that is the
time for trying things that you may not want to try during the race, so, no
harm, no foul, I guess.......
Ed

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 00:24:07

I think it shows the mentality of your co-racer, Obviously the fastest
way to get around a SS is to line up and draft. However, I'm sure there are
plenty of folks who find that boring. So rather than tap the brakes, or
lift slightly off the throttle, they take any chance they can to pass.
You can offer to draft together with the chat keys but they still may not
want to play the 'patience game.'
You also said they force you out of the draft, by that do you mean they
cause you to lose contact with the car/cars ahead of you? Even if you are
side by side, you should be able to tuck in and gain back most of the speed.
However, if your partner keeps trying to pass, he will slow your group down
and I guess you could lose contact.
dave henrie

by **Joachim Trens** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 04:27:47

Hi Dave,

when I saw them dive down behind me just before entering the corner, of
course I didn't follow the cars ahead of me onto the lower line but stayed
higher up to give the 'driver' room, thus losing contact with the draft
momentarily.

I did of course fall back in line behind the 'diver', but thought that this
maneuver didn't make much sense as I could have gotten the position back by
doing the same two corners later.

If I understand aerodynamics right, this maneuver slows the entire train
down for basically nothing, it's risky as it can only work if the car ahead
cooperates a lot and yields his position easily, and it's a maneuver without
merit as you aren't making this pass by virtue of better driving or tactics,
but by virtue of the guy's in front of you higher maturity and determination
to avoid an accident.

On a side note, while just squeezing your front bumper beside someone elses
rear bumper isn't a good pass ever, on tracks where you can pull away from
another car after such a pass by virtue of better driving, or if perhaps the
car in front of you permanently choses a very wide line and leaves the door
wide open upon entry into a corner during many laps, I would perceive such a
maneuver as sensible.

But on an SS, when all cars drive the same line and nobody can drive faster
due to the known restrictions, it all in all appeared strange enough that I
decided I needed to ask the experts :-)

Achim

...

by **Goy Larse** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:30:19

Yep, that pretty much sums it up if you ask me, but in that sense, why
have Dega races longer than 5 laps ? :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Joachim Trens** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 05:24:18

That would have been my next question... <g>

Achim

> Yep, that pretty much sums it up if you ask me, but in that sense, why
> have Dega races longer than 5 laps ? :-)

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
> --Groucho Marx--

by **John Pancoas** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 02:36:28

Because alot of other things can happen, and not just wrecks :)

-John

> Yep, that pretty much sums it up if you ask me, but in that sense, why
> have Dega races longer than 5 laps ? :-)

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
> --Groucho Marx--

by **Goy Larse** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 02:38:38

> Because alot of other things can happen, and not just wrecks :)

Well, there's a first for everything :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Mike Grand** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 02:44:25

Probably what you would want to do is let the guy that can lead the draft
the fastest(believe it or not some are better than others at this) . If you
get a guy that insists on diving under people and going to the front
regardless of how many laps there are, the best thing to do is hang him out
and if nobody works with him he'll have to stay back or learn. In any case
if you can get a breakaway from the main group the best thing to do is just
draft until maybe the last 5 laps or so. If you have two lines and can get
out in front you can work them both and be able to hold off both lines since
they will be battling with each other for position.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

by **Mike Grand** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 02:48:06

One thing you do have to remember is that the line thru the turns is low and
if you don't fill that in time someone will because it is easier than
getting on the brakes. As I approach the turn I slowly turn into it and the
driver behind me gets the feel for where I'm going.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

> Hi Dave,

> when I saw them dive down behind me just before entering the corner, of
> course I didn't follow the cars ahead of me onto the lower line but stayed
> higher up to give the 'driver' room, thus losing contact with the draft
> momentarily.

> I did of course fall back in line behind the 'diver', but thought that
this
> maneuver didn't make much sense as I could have gotten the position back
by
> doing the same two corners later.

> If I understand aerodynamics right, this maneuver slows the entire train
> down for basically nothing, it's risky as it can only work if the car
ahead
> cooperates a lot and yields his position easily, and it's a maneuver
without
> merit as you aren't making this pass by virtue of better driving or
tactics,
> but by virtue of the guy's in front of you higher maturity and
determination
> to avoid an accident.

> On a side note, while just squeezing your front bumper beside someone
elses
> rear bumper isn't a good pass ever, on tracks where you can pull away from
> another car after such a pass by virtue of better driving, or if perhaps
the
> car in front of you permanently choses a very wide line and leaves the
door
> wide open upon entry into a corner during many laps, I would perceive such
a
> maneuver as sensible.

> But on an SS, when all cars drive the same line and nobody can drive
faster
> due to the known restrictions, it all in all appeared strange enough that
I
> decided I needed to ask the experts :-)

> Achim

> ...
> > You also said they force you out of the draft, by that do you mean
they
> > cause you to lose contact with the car/cars ahead of you? Even if you
are
> > side by side, you should be able to tuck in and gain back most of the
> speed.
> > However, if your partner keeps trying to pass, he will slow your group
> down
> > and I guess you could lose contact.
> > dave henrie

by **Mike Grand** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 02:48:43

I like to think of it as a 200mph chess match. (-:

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

> Yep, that pretty much sums it up if you ask me, but in that sense, why
> have Dega races longer than 5 laps ? :-)

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
> --Groucho Marx--

by **Goy Larse** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 03:15:38

> I like to think of it as a 200mph chess match. (-:

200 ??

No wonder you were racing up front :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

rec.autos.simulators

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