rec.autos.simulators

Man, some nights you just wish you didn't bother dialing long
distance....

3 races at Talladega last night (Tuesday), long waits, and I'll
probably drop from my lowly #2 rating.

First race, qualified middle of the pack on the outside. Green drops
(no pace lap naturally) and everyone takes off diving down low. Hey,
I'll play it smart and take the high line till everything shakes out.
Let the nuts battle down low. Well, damn if they don't get into and
one of em shoots up the banking. Smacks the wall right in front of me,
bounces off, I have nowhere to go. I smack him, the guy behind me
smacks me, and then types "What's your problem KnuckleDuster?"  Huh?
What's my problem? Damn, I avoided the pack hoping for a clean start
and got nailed...and it's MY problem?

Second race, qualify near the back on the inside. Well no chance for
me to try the old "hide on the high side" for lap #1 (not that it
worked that well on the first try). So I'll lay off the pace and stay
low, maybe avoid the essential turn 1 demo derby. Hey, I make it
through but I'm pretty far back. No problem, I'm still racin. Come
through turn 2 and it's a crash city. Cars all over. Again, no where
to go. A little extra trouble since there's a good bit of warping
going on. Damaged engine as I hit someone square in the middle of the
backstretch.

Race #3. Qual in the back, maybe 4 cars behind me. I'm on the inside
again. I fiogure I'll just go easy on the gas again, let things shake

bumper and spinning out the car in front of me. Naturally a chain
reaction and guess who get's collected again? Damn! So I take the
leisurely tow truck to the pits (damge was on and I bent a tire). Get
out of the pits, now a lap down. Straddling the apron line on the long
backstretch and one of the leaders comes up on me. Now I'm all but off
the track but this guy figures he's gonna pass me low (which is damn
close to being on the grass). The guy Earnhardts me and spins me out.
I lost it and threw the F word around. Guy says, "I'm on the lead lap,
move over." How much more freaking room do you need. 95% of the
freaking track is bare but this guy has to have the bottom 5%. On the
back straight! If I was riding the wall and he hit me, no doubt he'd
have ***ed that I wasn't "moved over". So this is a relatively long
race for Hawaii (about 28 or 29 laps I think), so hell with it. I'm
staying out there and putzin along for points. Started in the back so
I figure if I can move up via the front runners battling it out and
crashing. Maybe I can offset the 2 incidents by finishing higher than
where I started. So I'm cruising along riding on the apron all the way
around except for turns, in which I get on the track late, with just
enough time to get some arc into the turn. Now, I'm not sure if the
"I'm on the lead lap, please move over" messages were aimed at me but
dammit, if I don't at least get my whole car width on the track, I
ain't making the turn and you're getting caught up in me. (especially
in the tri-oval). So I rode the apron for probably 95% of the race. No
problem with me. Hell I started like 22nd and ended up 13th (about 8
laps down). So I don't know what these guys expected with their "move
over please" messages. I'm completely on the apron and they're still
yellin it. Think I'm pulling off cause they can't run but the same
damn line the whole race? Yeah, right. I'm leaving 100% of the track
width open except for the turns in which I stay on the inside 3rd/ If
you can't get around me, to hell with ya. I'm going pretty slow (about
30 MPH slower) and you can blow on by and not lose any speed by
altering your groove a bit. I'm sure as hell not going off the track
and spinning out.

I hope the guy who tapped me last night and typed "I'm on the lead
lap, move over" reads this. Maybe he should consider using the rest of
the track especially since only the right half of my car was actually
on the track. Could have easily zoomed right up the middle and never
touched me instead of riding my ass, half on the apron.

Yes, I'm pissed after last night. I've raced clean, haven't jumped
starts and somehow managed to move up to a #2 rate. Think I'm doing
good and then get taken out by jackrabbits in 3 straight races. The
3rd didn't bother me too much since it was a long one and I had time
to get back into it. That was until the Intimidator came along and
decided he needed all the track and it'd be fun to spin out a lap car.
Notice that I spun out and he kept on cruisin never missing a beat.

Anyway I had to say something on the off chance he read this.

=========================================================
==Jim McGuigan     Power Switching & Conversion Systems==
==Hanover, PA      Baltimore / Washington Field Service==
==                                                     ==
**               Hawaii Driver: Knuckle Duster         **
*********************************************************

 Deleted Race 1 and 2 info.

I use the apron to keep out of everyone's way if I'm wrecked or
damaged. I know someone's gonna say to get out of the way when
lead traffic is comming through. I do... but I'm not gonna risk
wrecking myself or others by dodgeing around the leaders.

I've seen how the leaders run around the track.... turn one
and two are run down on the apron then they shoot out to the
outside on the backstrech to take advantage of the wall, then
again diving down into turns 3 and 4 on the apron and shooting
out to the wall going into the tri-oval the cutting across the
apron in the tri-oval and back out to the wall comming out and
heading to turn one.

To drive around these guys to "get out of their way" a driver
would have to take the opposite approach to the above....
Turn one and two up in the 2nd or third line. Coming out of
turn two the drive whould have to shoot down to the apron
to stay away from the wall for the leaders, while crossing
in front of fast traffic, "not safe". Going into turn three
the drive would then have to shoot back across the track to
the 2nd or 3rd line into turn four to stay out of the way,
again "not safe". Now the tri-oval would be real fun...
imagine having to run against the wall coming out of turn 4,
then diving low toward the pits to get out of the way, the
back to the outside in the oval, just so the leaders can
have the shortcut.

None of the above is "safe" driving and sure would be a lot
of wrecks in such a live race.

Now I'll step down off my soapbox, with only the these last
words.

All the "GREAT" drivers out there need to understand to use
a little of what your complaining about from the "newbies",,
use common courtesy and sense. A newbie will not be able
to get out of your way on the track if you are running a
low and high groove using the apron.

:( sorry guys, I didn't mean to preach :(

Tim.

I was racing at Talledega and had the same problems. I raced four times
and EVERY time there was a big wreck at the start/finish and another
one in Turn 1.

First time I got lucky and missed it. Second time, I ran into the back
of the wreck and got a damaged engine. Two more times I qualified on purpose
at the back and drove the first lap like a Formula One safety car. That
worked great but it isn't racing. I started one race 33rd and was in 16th
by the first back straight. But right now I just want to get my rating up
so I can avoid the crazies.

But I wonder if some of these accidents are the fault of warping. Seems
like there's a lot more of it at starts.

These stupid first lap accidents are the biggest problem with Hawaii. There
needs to be a "Qualifier Series" just to weed out the loonies and unsafe
incompetents. Me, I'm a safe incompetent.

Bill aka BillyJoe
--------------------------------------------------------------
       Centrimedia web development
       http://www.centrimedia.com/
--------------------------------------------------------------

I feel bad for you Jim... but thanks to your posting, I will never try Hawaii...
at least not with this current bunch of egotists that seem to be using the
system.

I can't believe it... look guys... its a F8cking game... thats all... the reason
people play it (or at least the reason I play Nascar) is because it's fun... if
you crash you crash.... too many thunderheads who probably can't manage driving
a real car who take this game waaaaaaay to seriously.

Jim... sorry you had a bad experience... stick to plain old modem racing... its
with friends and you have a heck of a better time doing it!

Mark
________________________________________________________
Mark Prince                  The WriteDesign Company

Visit my web page at         www.geocities.com/SoHo/1301
Visit the ID Sucks page at           www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2702

: Man, some nights you just wish you didn't bother dialing long
: distance....

: 3 races at Talladega last night (Tuesday), long waits, and I'll
: probably drop from my lowly #2 rating.

: Race #3. Qual in the back, maybe 4 cars behind me. I'm on the inside
: again. I fiogure I'll just go easy on the gas again, let things shake

: bumper and spinning out the car in front of me. Naturally a chain
: reaction and guess who get's collected again? Damn! So I take the
: leisurely tow truck to the pits (damge was on and I bent a tire). Get
: out of the pits, now a lap down. Straddling the apron line on the long
: backstretch and one of the leaders comes up on me. Now I'm all but off
: the track but this guy figures he's gonna pass me low (which is damn
: close to being on the grass). The guy Earnhardts me and spins me out.
: I lost it and threw the F word around. Guy says, "I'm on the lead lap,
: move over." How much more freaking room do you need. 95% of the
: freaking track is bare but this guy has to have the bottom 5%. On the
: back straight! If I was riding the wall and he hit me, no doubt he'd
: have ***ed that I wasn't "moved over". So this is a relatively long

I know how you feel. I noticed a lot of drivers use the bottom line down
the backstretch instead of driving next to the wall. Don't tell me they
think the tally backstretch is an Interstate highway... slow cars use
right lane!?

Overall, I had some very clean great races. I did***up one time when
I qualified 2nd at atlanta. We had a pace lap but my tires were cold. No
problems on the pace lap and the green flag waved. We
were in turn 1 and I was on the outside. It seemed that I was holding my
ground when suddenly, my rear end slipped. Within a blink of an eye, 15
or so cars
were bashing and wrecking down the backstretch. I immediately apologized
and told everyone how it started.

Multiplayer racing is very enjoyable when you race clean. Even if you are
one lap down, don't spoil it for the rest of us. I've seen some slow cars
do silly things like block the leaders.

Let's make this an enjoyable thing.

: =========================================================
: ==Jim McGuigan     Power Switching & Conversion Systems==
: ==Hanover, PA      Baltimore / Washington Field Service==
: ==                                                     ==
: **               Hawaii Driver: Knuckle Duster         **
: *********************************************************

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 ~~~~~~| |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'   `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |~~~~~~
        /                             _____________________ \
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ujj/             ____/--\___, ____/--\___,
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ujj/nascar/      |-O-----O--| |-O-----O--|
                                        ----------------------------

Mark, I've ranted and raved about the crazy racing online also,,,
but don't let all this talk discourage you from trying out the
online service. Papyrus has really put together a great system,
far better than others I've tried, which (ahem) included Sierra's
original Imagination Network, and those multiplayer servers for
Doom, Descent and others....

I think you'll like it if you try it. Just don't let a few of
the stuck ups scare ya off.

Later,
Tim.

Agree completely.

Exactly what I was saying...If I'm partially wrecked but can continue,
I might not have the right to drive in the fast groove, but dammit I
do have the right to ride the apron.

The "move over" bit really got me. You know, if I had a blade spinning
under the car, maybe they'd like me to cut the infield grass?

100% true, but you know what...

Doesn't matter since you're a "backmarker" and they're leaders. (Not
my opinion, just a bit of sarccasm). It's your job to stay out of the
way (even if you're on the apron). Not only do you have to decide
where you're going to drive, you also have to hook up with them via
ESP (or ESPN if you have cable, ESPN2 if you have really good cable
<G>) and know exactly where they're going to drive. Shouldn't be
neccessary, but we all know how the 195's are being achieved. And
there's nothing that pisses a 195 off more than having to deviate from
their line by a car width for a fraction of a second.

Maybe the only thing that will fix this is Papyrus' redesigning the
track so riding on the apron isn;t an advantage. That way, we
backmarkers who aren't running 190s but would like to finish the race
for points, can do so without being rammed from behind by a leader who
isn't satisfied with 100% of the actual track.

Naturally this is not true of all the guys who run 195s, but I've had
3 or 4 who've sent my into the inner wall by way of the apron. Very
possible that it was just a guy with a hot setup whose not all that
experienced with leading the pack and can only run 1 groove.

=========================================================
==Jim McGuigan     Power Switching & Conversion Systems==
==Hanover, PA      Baltimore / Washington Field Service==
==                                                     ==
**               Hawaii Driver: Knuckle Duster         **
*********************************************************

Actually, it wouldn't bother me if a backbarker was riding the apron.  I *can*
alter my line somewhat...<G>

<Sarcasm on>
So what's the problem - if they lift to change lines, they lose what, 2 tenths
off their lap time?  Sounds like a REAL problem
<Sarcasm off>

Hey Jim, when are we gonna run Watkins?<g>

________

Eldred Pickett

I am NOT paranoid.  And why are you always watching me?!?

David Martin
IVL Series Director
dgm26sam

I have done a bit of that but racing against 20 or 30 other guys is a
bit better. <Insert obligatory "wish it wasn't a LONG DISTANCE CALL"
comment here>

=========================================================
==Jim McGuigan     Power Switching & Conversion Systems==
==Hanover, PA      Baltimore / Washington Field Service==
==                                                     ==
**               Hawaii Driver: Knuckle Duster         **
*********************************************************

=========================================================
==Jim McGuigan     Power Switching & Conversion Systems==
==Hanover, PA      Baltimore / Washington Field Service==
==                                                     ==
**               Hawaii Driver: Knuckle Duster         **
*********************************************************

As anyone should...

Yeah, I wish I had that problem.... <G>

When I get personal lessons from the Intimidator <G>

Seriously, I'm sticking to places like "Dega, Atlanta, C***te since
they're the tracks I can keep myself from becoming a problem on.

=========================================================
==Jim McGuigan     Power Switching & Conversion Systems==
==Hanover, PA      Baltimore / Washington Field Service==
==                                                     ==
**               Hawaii Driver: Knuckle Duster         **
*********************************************************

<Excellent editorial on "apron racers" deleted for brevity>

My guess is they have the "cars drawn" set at 3 in front and they can't
see who they're going to hit.

 Dan

I agree.. the slower cars should try to keep out of the way of the faster
cars.  Here is a problem though... the faster cars don't watch out enough
for the slower cars.  Have you ever heard the term "caugh in slow
traffic" used during a NASCAR event?  I go out of my way to move to a side
and maintain a straight line for the faster cars.  Last night I was doing
a very similar thing, when a faster car decided that the tri-oval at
Taledaga would be the appropriate place to pass.  I held a straight line
as long as I could, and ended up scuffing the wall trying to avoid the
butthead.  The faster drivers need to avoid the slower cars as much as
the slower drivers should avoid them.  You are not guaranteed a line
because you are the fastest.  If someone is committed and cannot deviate,
you need to have a little more patience.  This race has taken on too much
of a "sprint to the finish" mentality.

People should make room for the leaders.  The leaders should realize that
this is not always possible and be ready for that.  Until then you'll just
be the Micheal Andretti of NASCAR and whine because you were driving out
of control and hit a slower car.

Ultimatly, the only solution is leagues and skill levels, then you can race with
the group that just has fun and wrecks each other, and the serious guys can race
each other.

        Tim V