rec.autos.simulators

by **Steve Smit** » Sat, 03 Apr 2004 07:26:05

Okay, I've tried the 'pro-sim' mode. It feels worse than the 'sim' mode;
all squishy, wallowy, and nauseous-making. The steering, in particular,
feels even more vague, as if I hadn't readjusted the dead zone. In re my
earlier query, the brakes don't seem to lock in a straight line (despite
varying the BB from +25 to -25%), but mashing them in the middle of a turn
will make the tail step out...somewhat. Whatever, it certainly doesn't feel
remotely realistic. Oh well, another promise unkept. What's the prob?
Aren't there enuf of us to support a real sim? Sheesh....

> Is it just me or is it impossible to lock up the brakes in this puppy?
> Okay, I just got my feet wet; haven't tried the 'pro-sim' mode, but if
brake
> lock-up is missing, it ain't no sim, it's ANOTHER arcade racer.
> Developing...as Matt Drudge sez.

> > I ran across this interesting little tidbit on the RaceSim Central
> > forum -- this was posted by Rich Tysoe, who is with Codies, I believe
> > (he posts as "RFT" on the RSC forums):

> > ======================

> > I just though it'd pipe up and say

> > THERE ARE NO ARTIFICIAL AIDS! none. nada. I don't know what you're
> > feeling, Every acceleration on the car is coming through the tyres
> > from your hands and feet.

> > In RD1, There was a correcting-force applied to a sliding car, (I
> > can't really go too deep into the technicalities) but there's nothing
> > like that in TRD2. it's been a point of almost religious fervour
> > within the team that we'd get the cars handling without resorting to
> > any of that sort of Monkey Business.
> > __________________
> > Rich Tysoe

> > ======================

> > Sounds like they were serious from the start this time around. I have
> > also heard that the demo is the final physics, but the tyre model
> > isn't finalized yet, so if that's part of the "20%" that remains to be
> > completed, then we could all be in for a pleasant surprise if they get
> > that part right.

> > -- JB

> > > Oh dear! ;-(

> > > Andi.

> > > --
> > > Remove only one zero to reply.

> > > > >I think the AI defaults to 70% so you could try turning it up a
bit,
> I'd
> > > be
> > > > >intreseted in how you think it goes then.

> > > > I started with 100%, found them too easy, cranked it to 110%, and
> > > > don't really notice a difference at all. I can start from the back
of
> > > > the grid in any of the 3 races available and be in the lead by the
end
> > > > of the 2nd lap.

> > > > Jason

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:35:05

On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:26:05 GMT, "Steve Smith"

>Okay, I've tried the 'pro-sim' mode. It feels worse than the 'sim' mode;
>all squishy, wallowy, and nauseous-making. The steering, in particular,
>feels even more vague, as if I hadn't readjusted the dead zone. In re my
>earlier query, the brakes don't seem to lock in a straight line (despite
>varying the BB from +25 to -25%), but mashing them in the middle of a turn
>will make the tail step out...somewhat. Whatever, it certainly doesn't feel
>remotely realistic. Oh well, another promise unkept. What's the prob?
>Aren't there enuf of us to support a real sim? Sheesh....

Eh, it's kinda fun, but yeah, it's not really a sim.

Still, between GTR and RBR I think this is going to be a decent year
for us.

Jason

by **Klin** » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 07:34:05

The terrible "steering" ruins it for me. Problem is best shown on the Hock
back straight (gentle curve). When I'm steering along this curve and want to
tighten my line just a bit, the car doesn't initially react to my steering
input, then suddenly darts sideways, much sharper than I intended.
Impossible to make subtle corrections, place the car accurately on the road
for turn-in points etc. This is with the 'Pro-Simulation' setting.

I'm using a Logi Momo, have played with the control setup deadzone &
'saturation' to no avail. Still feels like I'm using a game pad to steer. I
spend too much time trying to anticipate how the game's controller routines
will react, rather than how the *car* will react.

Graphics are OK, but nothing out of the ordinary these days. Some of the car
modelling seems very low detail, e.g. the Jag XKE. (This is with the detail
slider at highest setting on an ATI 9800 XT - it ain't the hardware.) Since
in this sort of game the cars are the stars, you would think more detail
would lavished on them.

...Klinn

by **jbod** » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:04:19

The deadzone and saturation alone won't do it for you -- you're
probably going to want to try changing your controller selection from
"Wheel" to "Pad" (if you haven't done so already) -- I saw a post
elsewhere that indicated that these selections are mis-labeled
(reversed). I tried it first with my controller set as a "Wheel," and
I didn't like the control (brakes too strong/touchy, steering twitchy,
etc.), but when I changed the controller selection to "Pad," things
began to feel MUCH better.

I posted a query about this "Wheel/Pad" issue on the RaceSim Central
forum, and this was posted in response I got from Rich Tysoe of Codies
(who posts as "RFT" there):

========================

Quote:

on "pad", steering lock is reduced on a reverse exponential curve with
increasing speed. the speed of decrease is set on a per-car basis with
it's mechanics values. I don't know if there's a response curve
applied across the input range.

on "wheel", steering is purely linear (about 20 degrees of lock
total), with the exception that under 15 MPH, the lock doubles,
basically so you can turn a spun car round in the narrow street
tracks. It's like the steering hack in GPL, but unless you've crashed,
you won't be going slow enough to get it to kick in.

If you're used to any degree of non-linearity in your normal
simracing, then I guess this is what's throwing you.
__________________
Rich Tysoe

========================

This explains a lot, and it now makes perfect sense to me, because
unlike most folks, I drive GPL with the linearity set to the
halfway-point because my TSW2 seems too sensitive with the slider set
to fully linear. Since that's what I'm used to in GPL, it makes sense
that the non-linear "Pad" setting in RD2 "feels" better to me with my
TSW2.

FWIW, some Momo users are reporting that using the "Wheel" selection
works great for them, but I guess it depends on what type of linearity
setting you're comfortable with in other sims.

This is definitely LIGHT-YEARS ahead of RD1, and it's a pretty good
SIM, IMO.

;-)

-- JB

> The terrible "steering" ruins it for me. Problem is best shown on the Hock
> back straight (gentle curve). When I'm steering along this curve and want to
> tighten my line just a bit, the car doesn't initially react to my steering
> input, then suddenly darts sideways, much sharper than I intended.
> Impossible to make subtle corrections, place the car accurately on the road
> for turn-in points etc. This is with the 'Pro-Simulation' setting.

> I'm using a Logi Momo, have played with the control setup deadzone &
> 'saturation' to no avail. Still feels like I'm using a game pad to steer. I
> spend too much time trying to anticipate how the game's controller routines
> will react, rather than how the *car* will react.

> Graphics are OK, but nothing out of the ordinary these days. Some of the car
> modelling seems very low detail, e.g. the Jag XKE. (This is with the detail
> slider at highest setting on an ATI 9800 XT - it ain't the hardware.) Since
> in this sort of game the cars are the stars, you would think more detail
> would lavished on them.

> ...Klinn

> > The Toca 2 demo is now out !!!

> > Offical !

by **cron** » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:12:51

> The terrible "steering" ruins it for me. Problem is best shown on the Hock
> back straight (gentle curve). When I'm steering along this curve and want to
> tighten my line just a bit, the car doesn't initially react to my steering
> input, then suddenly darts sideways, much sharper than I intended.
> Impossible to make subtle corrections, place the car accurately on the road
> for turn-in points etc. This is with the 'Pro-Simulation' setting.

> I'm using a Logi Momo, have played with the control setup deadzone &
> 'saturation' to no avail. Still feels like I'm using a game pad to steer. I
> spend too much time trying to anticipate how the game's controller routines
> will react, rather than how the *car* will react.

> Graphics are OK, but nothing out of the ordinary these days. Some of the car
> modelling seems very low detail, e.g. the Jag XKE. (This is with the detail
> slider at highest setting on an ATI 9800 XT - it ain't the hardware.) Since
> in this sort of game the cars are the stars, you would think more detail
> would lavished on them.

> ...Klinn

> > The Toca 2 demo is now out !!!

> > Offical !

I won't even begin to comment on how bad this demo is but they still
havn't learnt how to enable mouse support in the game menus, who
really wants to fumble around in the menu with the keyboard on a pc
these days?

Codemasters won't be getting my money, I'll stick to the decent racing
simulations we have.

by **Klin** » Mon, 05 Apr 2004 23:56:31

Thanks for the suggestions, but yes, I've already tried switching between
'Wheel' and 'Pad' with not much improvement. As for Rich Tysoe's
description, well, I play GPL and NASCAR2003 with the linearity set at 80%
to 85% (in GPL close to the left side, that is). So I'm used to steering
with a high degree of linearity.

It still feels like a deadzone issue. Nothing happens for the first few
degrees off-center, then bang! Off it goes. I had the same sort of feeling
from the demo of Colin McRae4 by Codies, but I guess I'm not as worried
about precise positioning when flinging the car sideways in dirt. <grin>
I've haven't fiddled with DXTweak lately to check the controller deadzone,
but then, I haven't had to for any of the other games/sims I play. (GPL,
N2003, F1C, ETCC) I don't want to muck up the feel in those titles.

Oh well, at least the improved physics modelling got me to *try* the demo.
RD1 was panned widely enough that I didn't even bother d/l'ing it. Maybe the
next generation will be improved again, and I'll actually purchase RD3!

...Klinn

by **Steve Smit** » Tue, 06 Apr 2004 05:00:44

Me too. I tried every trick in the book (and some that aren't) and the
steering still feels like a ***y game pad (it's actually better in the
non-Pro-Sim mode). The numbnuts at Codemasters manage to make this same
mistake every time, and every game (like CMR04..especially ironic now that
he drives for Ferrari!). The menu sucks...and prolly will in the game, too
(altho I expect you'll be able to save yer settings in the full game...which
I, for one, will never buy). If I were Papyrus, I'd license their
controller routines, replay routines, and garage/setup routines to one and
all...at least until they get back in the sim game (as it were).

> Thanks for the suggestions, but yes, I've already tried switching between
> 'Wheel' and 'Pad' with not much improvement. As for Rich Tysoe's
> description, well, I play GPL and NASCAR2003 with the linearity set at 80%
> to 85% (in GPL close to the left side, that is). So I'm used to steering
> with a high degree of linearity.

> It still feels like a deadzone issue. Nothing happens for the first few
> degrees off-center, then bang! Off it goes. I had the same sort of feeling
> from the demo of Colin McRae4 by Codies, but I guess I'm not as worried
> about precise positioning when flinging the car sideways in dirt. <grin>
> I've haven't fiddled with DXTweak lately to check the controller deadzone,
> but then, I haven't had to for any of the other games/sims I play. (GPL,
> N2003, F1C, ETCC) I don't want to muck up the feel in those titles.

> Oh well, at least the improved physics modelling got me to *try* the demo.
> RD1 was panned widely enough that I didn't even bother d/l'ing it. Maybe
the
> next generation will be improved again, and I'll actually purchase RD3!

> ...Klinn

> > The deadzone and saturation alone won't do it for you -- you're
> > probably going to want to try changing your controller selection from
> > "Wheel" to "Pad" (if you haven't done so already) -- I saw a post
> > elsewhere that indicated that these selections are mis-labeled
> > (reversed). I tried it first with my controller set as a "Wheel," and
> > I didn't like the control (brakes too strong/touchy, steering twitchy,
> > etc.), but when I changed the controller selection to "Pad," things
> > began to feel MUCH better.

> > I posted a query about this "Wheel/Pad" issue on the RaceSim Central
> > forum, and this was posted in response I got from Rich Tysoe of Codies
> > (who posts as "RFT" there):

> > ========================

> > Quote:

> > on "pad", steering lock is reduced on a reverse exponential curve with
> > increasing speed. the speed of decrease is set on a per-car basis with
> > it's mechanics values. I don't know if there's a response curve
> > applied across the input range.

> > on "wheel", steering is purely linear (about 20 degrees of lock
> > total), with the exception that under 15 MPH, the lock doubles,
> > basically so you can turn a spun car round in the narrow street
> > tracks. It's like the steering hack in GPL, but unless you've crashed,
> > you won't be going slow enough to get it to kick in.

> > If you're used to any degree of non-linearity in your normal
> > simracing, then I guess this is what's throwing you.
> > __________________
> > Rich Tysoe

> > ========================

> > This explains a lot, and it now makes perfect sense to me, because
> > unlike most folks, I drive GPL with the linearity set to the
> > halfway-point because my TSW2 seems too sensitive with the slider set
> > to fully linear. Since that's what I'm used to in GPL, it makes sense
> > that the non-linear "Pad" setting in RD2 "feels" better to me with my
> > TSW2.

> > FWIW, some Momo users are reporting that using the "Wheel" selection
> > works great for them, but I guess it depends on what type of linearity
> > setting you're comfortable with in other sims.

> > This is definitely LIGHT-YEARS ahead of RD1, and it's a pretty good
> > SIM, IMO.

> > ;-)

> > -- JB

rec.autos.simulators

TOCA 2 demo

TOCA 2 demo

TOCA 2 demo

TOCA 2 demo

TOCA 2 demo

TOCA 2 demo

TOCA 2 demo

TOCA 2 demo