rec.autos.simulators

by **Rick Fis** » Thu, 02 Jan 1997 04:00:00

> On a motorbike you are controlling the gears and brake with your feet,
> and clutch and front brake have been transferred to your hands - it's
> more of a swap than a total shift to hand control. Using both hands and
> feet is still by far the best way to control either a real car or a sim
> car.

> Cheers!
> John

Hi John,

Like you I prefer to drive real cars and sims with wheels and pedals.
However, as a long time motorcyclist I can see how driving a sim with
the GP1 might work very well. On a motorcycle all of the important
controls that require a delicate touch are hand operated - steering,
gas, clutch, and front wheel braking (70% of the braking capability is
at the front wheel). My dad used to ride an AJS (English motorcycle)
all over southern Michigan and he has only one leg!

Happy New Year!
Rick

by **ja..** » Fri, 03 Jan 1997 04:00:00

WOn Wed, 01 Jan 1997 21:05:10 +0000, Rick Fisk

>> On a motorbike you are controlling the gears and brake with your feet,
>> and clutch and front brake have been transferred to your hands - it's
>> more of a swap than a total shift to hand control. Using both hands and
>> feet is still by far the best way to control either a real car or a sim
>> car.

>> Cheers!
>> John

>Hi John,

>Like you I prefer to drive real cars and sims with wheels and pedals.
>However, as a long time motorcyclist I can see how driving a sim with
>the GP1 might work very well. On a motorcycle all of the important
>controls that require a delicate touch are hand operated - steering,
>gas, clutch, and front wheel braking (70% of the braking capability is
>at the front wheel). My dad used to ride an AJS (English motorcycle)
>all over southern Michigan and he has only one leg!

>Happy New Year!
>Rick

Well as someone who used to race both Motocross and later Road Raced
in endurance races on motorcycles I can tell you this BOTH of your
feet are very busy while racing!!! Compairing driving (or racing) a
car to a motorcycle is a joke. No way no how is it the same thing.
There are riders in F1 motorcycle racing who have had foot
injures have had extra controls placed on the handlebars to operate
the rear brake with their hands. So yes you do indeed use the rear
brake, yes the front takes the major work while racing but at times
you need to use the rear to make the bike stable. I have had the rear
brakes stop working one time due to a brake hose bursting and it made
racing a lot harder in that race.

At least I have raced at Daytona four times in real life so I guess I
can wait out for another three years until with get it in N2 or N3. By
then Sega probably will give it up I hope.

Jack

by **Kheinz** » Fri, 03 Jan 1997 04:00:00

Hand controlled throttle and brake are the hot tip?

Better let the "real world" F1, NASCAR, and Indycar
people in on this new secret that we sim guys just discovered!

Has anybody noticed that when riding a
motorcycle, turning is accomplished by shifting of
weight, and *not* by turning the handlebars?
In a turn, the amount of handlebar movement is
so small as to hardly even be noticeable, and allows
for use of hands for other functions, unlike a car
wheel which requires relatively massive amounts
of movement, and cannot possibly allow for
enough control accuracy of controls which
require proportional inputs (i.e. throttle and brake)
as opposed to those which require on/off inputs
(i.e. shifting via paddles or buttons).

Karl

by **Dave Blackbur** » Fri, 03 Jan 1997 04:00:00

The paddles are analog, not digital, and they work much beter IMHO than
the T2 peddles.

Adios

by **ja..** » Sat, 04 Jan 1997 04:00:00

Steering a motorcycle is done by what is called "Countersteering"
you turn left to go right & right to go left, not by shifting weight.
This is not BS! Try it or better yet read any book such as "Twist of
the wrist" that deals with motorcycle road racing.
To test this out if you ride a motorcycle (or a bike if you go fast
enough) PUSH on the right side handlebar with the palm of your
hand...GUESS what way you will turn? You will turn to the right NOT
the left like most would think. This is countersteering when you
master this that is what sets apart the very fast from the fast while
racing. The shifting of weight or leaning off is not what make it
steer. Remember a bike or motorcycle while moving is a giant
gyroscope.
If you try the countersteering as I said by pushing right (or you
could just yank to the left to turn right also) BE CAREFULL you will
turn to the right like RIGHT NOW!
Find the book " A Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code it tells a lot
about why a how a motorcycle turns and how to do it fast.
The leaning (or*** off) is a result of the turning process not
what causes the process.

NOW for all the stuff about wheels with or without pedals or hand
controls.....USE what you like!! F1 cars shift at the wheels and have
a pit speed control button, but they still have to use foot controls
for gas and brake (dunno about the clutch with the button shift?).
Also I think they were playing with auto trans in F1.

Jack

by **Matthew Lewi** » Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:00:00

> >Hand controlled throttle and brake are the hot tip?

> >Better let the "real world" F1, NASCAR, and Indycar
> >people in on this new secret that we sim guys just discovered!

> >Has anybody noticed that when riding a
> >motorcycle, turning is accomplished by shifting of
> >weight, and *not* by turning the handlebars?
> >In a turn, the amount of handlebar movement is
> >so small as to hardly even be noticeable, and allows
> >for use of hands for other functions, unlike a car
> >wheel which requires relatively massive amounts
> >of movement, and cannot possibly allow for
> >enough control accuracy of controls which
> >require proportional inputs (i.e. throttle and brake)
> >as opposed to those which require on/off inputs
> >(i.e. shifting via paddles or buttons).

> >Karl

> Steering a motorcycle is done by what is called "Countersteering"
> you turn left to go right & right to go left, not by shifting weight.
> This is not BS! Try it or better yet read any book such as "Twist of
> the wrist" that deals with motorcycle road racing.
> To test this out if you ride a motorcycle (or a bike if you go fast
> enough) PUSH on the right side handlebar with the palm of your
> hand...GUESS what way you will turn? You will turn to the right NOT
> the left like most would think. This is countersteering when you
> master this that is what sets apart the very fast from the fast while
> racing. The shifting of weight or leaning off is not what make it
> steer. Remember a bike or motorcycle while moving is a giant
> gyroscope.
> If you try the countersteering as I said by pushing right (or you
> could just yank to the left to turn right also) BE CAREFULL you will
> turn to the right like RIGHT NOW!
> Find the book " A Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code it tells a lot
> about why a how a motorcycle turns and how to do it fast.
> The leaning (or*** off) is a result of the turning process not
> what causes the process.

> NOW for all the stuff about wheels with or without pedals or hand
> controls.....USE what you like!! F1 cars shift at the wheels and have
> a pit speed control button, but they still have to use foot controls
> for gas and brake (dunno about the clutch with the button shift?).
> Also I think they were playing with auto trans in F1.

> Jack

FYI: For F1 the clutch can either be hand-operated or foot operated.
The clutch is only used normally for the engagement of 1st gear from a
stop. Push-button shifts require no clutching normally. Some drivers
(ex. Jaques Villeneuve) use the hand clutch in order to allow left foot
braking. Otherwise the closely placed pedals hinder this.

M Lewis

rec.autos.simulators

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