rec.autos.simulators

i have the tape of the race as i do of every race in F1 as far back as
1984.......i defy you to recant that statement.......or i need a very
new ***y well expensive pair of eyeglasses.

secondly.....

review the events of the race in san marino as they took place.......a
lot of debris was on the track when the cars lapped the incident...and
who was first to go thru it all?....and a tiny puncture caused by very
very sharp edges from carbon fibre debris is VERY comman when it relates
to tires going down..especially at running temperature in very very
expensive race cars.( a loss of one pound can adversely cause
uncalcuable results on a car that at top speed and at the corner it was
subjected to at high G force,spells nothing but disaster)

are you absolutely positively certain that it was being monitored?
can you with out a doubt..understand that just....just that maybe....the
team was in a state of flux at the time probably thinking that the race
was about to be stopped...as it should have been......and at that moment
they were probably more concerned with that and to get ready for a
re-start that should have been but never was????....if i do believe my
memory is correct...this was the first time that the FIA had instituted
it's "safety car' program in a race.....simply put/...the race should
have been stopped.......tires from the destroyed cars landed in the
crowd for god sakes...killing one and injuring others.....one tire flew
so hard at impact...it bounced off the top of the roof of the
grandstand!!!

since as far
(you have a poor memory my friend......nannini was in the top 3 at the
time...senna..as he did on many occasions...blew the start....driving at
unsafe hell bent for leather speeds to reach back to his "spot" which he
didnt give much creedence to how he got it,as long as he
did...nannini...was out of the race......broken,DNF'd and wondering why
he probably even bothered to be a sportsmen on a grid that included such
a selfish individual as mouisuer senna)

and as far as senna's tire not being punctured...F1RAcing ran 2 shots of
senna coming up on the debris.....with schumacher behind him.....first
shot was the debris appearing in a spot on the track that appeared would
no doubt..leave it in the on coming track of his left front tire(senna's
william's).....and in the 2nd shot....with schumacher as a very good
point of reference....showing the debris had moved just as schuie was
about to follow in the same track as senna...with the debris suddenly
shifted out of that track.....the reason these shots were never brought
to the attention of legal authorities is that they were takin by an
amateur)
in my opinion.....they appeared to be very good untampered reliable
photographs that should have, in some way at least, had some bearing in
the decision ,if any,as to the probable cause of the events that were to
unfold a few short seconds later,but were never given the light of day
in any investigation into the matter as they were
"heresay" photos.

the ones who are to blame for his death?....and never will take any
blame?....are the politic that nerves formula one racing.not the owner's
of the track....as it was sanctioned as a FIA licenced event......not
the team who could be not seen as fault for simply providing the car in
which he drove....and not the track itself...which in it's race state
provided no more or no less a degree os safety than anyother track that
was sanctioned that season.

formula one made a glaring bad call that day....one that ended up
killing..due to circumstancecs IN thier control,,,,a man...simply a man
who enjoyed to race hi-powered race cars.

i have watched the tape of the events more than enough times than
perhaps the average person and it's a combination of bad calls......poor
politics and the high degree to compete and the will to win at all costs
that killed ayrton senna that day.
i hope we learned alot from it.

All of the cars went throught it. Senna _might_ have got a puncture
from it, then again he might not. He _might_ have had a problem due to
a setup being on the limit and tyre pressures being low. He _might_
have found the steering column snapped in his hand. He _might_ have
been abducted by aliens. The important thing is not the absence of
evidence that something _didn't_ happen, it's having conclusive
evidence that it did.

The loss of one pound was far more likely caused by falling the safety
car at low speed for several laps.

No.

If any state of flux existed it was several laps earlier. The incident
passed long ago, the cars had circulated several times behind the
safety car and done one racing lap - that's 10 minutes or more.
Anyway, the data capture isn't done by two blokes and a pencil it's
done by computer data capture. Even if it wasn't real time the data
transfer was made when the car passed the pits, seconds prior to the
accident. If there was a puncture the team would have found the data
and they've stated the tyres were fine.

You don't remember Prost and Hill following the safety car in the
British Grand Prix the year before..?

In that race, Portugal 1990, Senna made a majestic start, swept passed
the front row Ferraris of Prost and Mansell. Berger followed through
into second place. Senna went on to win and Nannini finished down in
sixth place.

Watch your tape.

I saw those. Have you ever stood next to a motorway and felt the wind
as cars drive by at 70mph? Can you imagine the massive movement of air
caused by a car with tens or hundreds of times the downforce passing
at 200mph? I'm sure that wouldn't have moved the debris....would it?
As before, the important thing is not being able to say that it might
have happened.

A man who witnessed at first hands the events of the previous two
days. A man who knew, better than anyone else, the dangers of the
circuit and the difficulty of the car he was driving. A man who was
better qualified perhaps than anyone else in the world to judge these
factors and decide if they were within or outwith his control. He
chose to drive.

Of course there are many other factors, but do you think that you, as
an interested but untrained observer, are better qualified than Senna
to judge what was and was not dangerous?

Cheers!
John

The problem was that a) the stones seemed too hard compressed to
actually slow anything done and b) (the main point) thanks to the lip
on the track Senna's car flew over the initial portion of it, reducing
the distance where brakes would have any effect.

Cheers!
John

--
Cheers,
Poppa Smoke
Always remember this... Marines die.
But The Marine Corps lives forever.
And that means you live forever.......
From the outside you can't understand it.
From the inside I can't explain it.
SEMPER FI  !

I think this thread has gone slightly off...
The fact is that Senna was killed in a freak fashion by a small part
penetrating his helmets visor, and his eye. Had that shrapnel hit a few
cms any other way, it might have been different, no matter if it was his
column, puncture or whatever. Gerhard Berger had a similair crash at the
same spot, and survived, even though there was a huge fire. Motor racing
is dangerous. Sennas accident was no worse than those witnessed fairly
often on oval circuits.
I agree that safety measures should be taken, but in the end, all we'll
have are 16 races at magny cours, and that will be even dafter than the
current F1....
Like at Le Mans, were youngster Enjolras was killed in practice last
year, or Krosnoff's CART accident, it can always happen...

Mario Once said : "unfortunately, it (racing)  is also this" (of
Peterson's death)

Matt, a great fan of the sport, not the accidents.

--

Matthew Knutsen

"The Art of Legends" - GPL add-ons
http://www.cheekracing.electra.no/GPL/

and the accident occurred on the start that started this whole mess and
there was no safety car in formula one in 1993.......

senna was a flake......he's even stated publicly that sometimes when he
was behind the wheel...he could feel closer to god......sounds like a
guy to me that wasnt completely in control of all his faculties now does
it....or concentration.

what you should be very concerned with...is the fact that all of this
was swept under the rug......the italian inquiry stood as a testament to
making a mockery of what race fans believed was...the pinnacle of
motorsport.since that day....formula one has degraded itself...in a
downward spiral...for nothing less but to cover thier tracks under
preassure from the insurance industry to clean up thier act.

the reason we will never know what really happened that day is because
of pompous and snippy no-gut atitudes that you've displayed on your
posts for whoever wants to view them...and my hope is that many have.

that race should have been stopped.......but it was an excuse for the
high uppity up's to display thier new judicial meandering's in focus
with the lack of a sturdy agreement(the concorde agreement)and to make
it appear to all race fans that they knew what they were doing.
well look at the result?....
have the william's data tapes ever been made public?...no.....
ever wonder why?
let's see how imaginative you can be by answering that query.
i'd love to hear it.

--
Tim "Calm Down" Wheatley
________________________________________________

                                  Tim Wheatley
                "Yellow menacing helmet in the mirror"
                           http://start.at/igps_stats
     IGPS - Ferrari Challenge - UKGPL - Summer Cup Driver
                      http://drive.to/grandprixlegends

                  http://website.lineone.net/~nascar
________________________________________________

Funny, I must have imagined being at Silverstone and watching Hill and
Prost following the safety car round. Was I hallucinating?

Do you speak Portugese? Do you know what he said? How do you know he
didn't? Take off your blinkers and step out from behind your
preconceptions and narrow-minded views.

I think all that has been displayed is what you have paraded on the
newsgroup. You haven't done yourself any favours (in case you haven't
noticed).

Because it's required by Italian law? Have you studied Italian law?
Please do so, you will learn things that will answer many of your
whines.

Cheers!
John

We can now argue the grit size of the stones or the sand content of
the gravel if you like.

Cheers!
John

--
Tim "Calm Down" Wheatley
________________________________________________

                                  Tim Wheatley
                "Yellow menacing helmet in the mirror"
                           http://start.at/igps_stats
     IGPS - Ferrari Challenge - UKGPL - Summer Cup Driver
                      http://drive.to/grandprixlegends

                  http://website.lineone.net/~nascar
________________________________________________

--
Tim "Calm Down" Wheatley
________________________________________________

                                  Tim Wheatley
                "Yellow menacing helmet in the mirror"
                           http://start.at/igps_stats
     IGPS - Ferrari Challenge - UKGPL - Summer Cup Driver
                      http://drive.to/grandprixlegends

                  http://website.lineone.net/~nascar
________________________________________________