rec.autos.simulators

Unless DN is under some covert contract from someone with very deep
pockets, he will *never* be appropriately compensated for the work he
has done for all of the GPL community, not even close. Have any of you
who have questioned DN ever hired a programmer -- they don't come
cheap.

Don't you wonder why they do it? Why did Larry Holbert write VROC? I
never see or hear about them being active racers, why would they
bother? For those of you that don't know: It's a hell of a lot of work
to produce these things. Instead of***ing around with a track or
utility for us they could be on the clock making money for
themseleves. I'm very curious and I'd absolutely love for an

could do -- I'm sure there must be some interesting stories there.

The motives of some of the people who have made great contributions to
GPL are more obvious. It seems to me the GPLEA guys -- and all the
others I can think of at the moment -- do it because they love GPL.
Can this be said for LH or DN? I never see evidence that they
participate. Ever in VROC? Listed on GPLRank?

I don't understand how you people cannot help but hold a genuine
appreciation for each and every one of the people who have contributed
to the GPL community.

That BS with the French site is pathetic, it has nothing to do with
legalities -- it was just plain un-cool to do that. We all owe DN
better. I've never met him, but DN is a very good friend of mine.

Cut him some slack, he sure as hell has been good to you.

Randy

  I think it's rude to demand an explanation but it's fair enough to
ask for one.

: Damndest display of dishourable sponges I think
: I've ever had the displeasure of witnessing. About the same as getting
: peeved at one of your friends for asking for some help with the gas
: money after giving you a ride.

  Hmm... I think it's like getting peeved at one of your friends for
asking for some help with the gas money when you never do and neither
do your other friends.

  Sorry, I just believe in the free software ideal.  While Dave has a
perfect right to charge for what he does I'd prefer the precedent not to
be set for user-done add-ons to games.

  (And for the record I'm paid in a job where programming is one of my
main duties but try to give my code away freely wherever this is not
limited by my terms of employment).

  Still, we now return you to your scheduled display of "Sierra and
Microsoft do it so it must be moral"...

--
Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
    Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
      Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
     UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

MS

Seems to me the "precedent" you protest is larger than most commercial
add-on packs AND is cheaper than most of same.

I look forward to your first posted track.... Really.

Yr friend in the aether,
smogbike

And I too, good sir. Let noone around here make unwaranted cracks about your
last name.

And if they do I'll give them an lecture about synonyms. That'll show them.

Dave, on the other hand, has the RIGHT to charge for his products.

Since Dave has the right to charge for his products he has the right to tell
anyone who asks why to "piss off," or, even more appropriately, to ignore
them completely.

Man, are YOU trying to lock the barn door after the horse has bolted. That
precedent was set decades ago. Many of these products you can find on the
shelves of software stores.

Look, I believe in the freesoftware Ideal too. I use Linux. I support the
FSF and RMS. I ALSO use GPL, which is definately NOT GPL'd. This does not
make me a hypocrite. It means I support Free software where I can and
aknowledge the rights of those who charge me for their output. I have the
RIGHT not to buy it, if I so chose.
Noone OWES you free software.

You want to know the people who frost my cake? Not the Noonans who deign to
charge for the 10% tip of the iceberg of their work. No.

The people who "give" their work away with restrictions and conditions up
the wazoo. Especially where their own work relies on the fair use principle
in the first place, and their "license" denies fair use of their fair use.

These people are the hypocrites if they are free software advocates, and at
least borderline hypocrites if they don't.

"Oh sure, I popped a new dash into GPL, but don't you pop a new gauge into
my dash without my permission Sparky."

This is propriatary software, with a more restrictive license than many
commercial games, not withstanding the fact that it is distributed for
"free." It is not free software, and in that light has not been
"contributed" at all to the community.

I would like nothing better than to see the free software ethic invade the
user add on community. It will have to invade the driving sim community,
because , so far, it hardly exists here. You'll have to explain what "free
software" even MEANS to most of the people making add ons. THEY think it
means you can download it for free, when in fact, *according to RMS it's
perfectly ok to charge for free software!*

Did you get that last? Go to the GNU site and read up on what RMS has to say
about charging for software.

So you don't mind getting paid for your programing? Who is paying Noonan,
and hasn't he already given away the bulk of his work for GPL? Do YOU get
payed for writing the software you give away freely, or do you donate your
time to these projects?

Sierra is scum. Microsoft is lower than that. But that's a whole 'nother
kettle of stinky fish.

Ok, I've rattled more than just YOUR cage with this post. Let the attacks
begin.

Garret

Not in this case Richard. One of the most basic rules of newsgroup
participation says to lurk for a long enough period of time that you know
what's going on, so that you know what your talking about before you open your
mouth. The person "challenging" Dave for an explanation was completely ignorant
of the scope of Daves contributions.
 Further, I don't consider it appropriate to even ask. An offer to purchase a
product was made, the terms crystal clear. You either buy it or you don't,
anything beyond that is whining. I personally didn't even want the converter as
gpl was already taking up enough of my life, but I purchased it anyway to say
THANK YOU to Dave Noonan for his many GIFTS to this community.

--
Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.
GPLRank -4.30

Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site
http://gplrank.schuerkamp.de/

Jan./"dishonourable sponges".... that's a keeper! ;-)
=---

<snip>
<mo' snippage>

Yep. I even skipped that thread, and I NEVER skip threads :)

Andre

If people bothered to lurk in this newsgroup the traffic would be cut 50%.
"What is the best Wheel?"... "GP3 has been delayed to August!" ...  "Is
NFS:PU any good?"....

My feeling on free software?  Not everything has to be free, so get over it.
Linux has managed to raise a community of people who expect to pay for
nothing.  Not games, not apps, not anything.