rec.autos.simulators

by **AKA PRC_Deit** » Thu, 11 May 2000 04:00:00

Dave Henrie mentioned in an earlier N4 thread that N4 will support
"Transform and Lighting" and Mike Carver asked for a source on how he knows
that to be true.

I quickly read through all of those post but didn't see any replies. Does
anyone have a source on the N4 T&L support?

PS. Ya, know, some may have their beefs against these some corporations for
various reasons, but I just want to say ROCKON!!! to Sierra, Papy and Won,
PRC and anyone else for taking online racing simulation seriously and trying
to make it as good as some of the FPS online stuff out there! I can't wait
to pay my $50+ US bucks or whatever it will be for N4 in order to support
the awesome effort that has gone into making it possible for me to enjoy
online racing at this level and with up to 32+ drivers at once! Any new
goodies that N4 provides will be well worth the price no matter what video
cards it supports the best! Just don't tell them that because I would
really like to see a top racing sim support Transform and Lighting :)

It makes me so technically happy that they've come this far that I think I'm
going to cry, sniff sniff ;o)

Bruce Moody
Pro Racing Club - Advertising Manager
Info: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Ads: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Car #33 aka Deiter
Sponsor: American Network Products - http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 11 May 2000 04:00:00

Sorry If I missed that. Eric Busch formerly a sim racer here on ras,
now a sound-code monkey with papyrus stated, either here or on Jacob's
N3 server, that hardware accelerated T&L will be supported via D3D and
Opengl. Glide will not be implemented at all. Our Voodoo cards will
still work, using D3D or Opengl, but not with all the bells and
whistles...
I haven't pinned him down on the sound api yet... :)
No inside info...just picking up the threads on a couple of different
newsgroups.
dave henrie

> Dave Henrie mentioned in an earlier N4 thread that N4 will support
> "Transform and Lighting" and Mike Carver asked for a source on how he knows
> that to be true.

> I quickly read through all of those post but didn't see any replies. Does
> anyone have a source on the N4 T&L support?

> PS. Ya, know, some may have their beefs against these some corporations for
> various reasons, but I just want to say ROCKON!!! to Sierra, Papy and Won,
> PRC and anyone else for taking online racing simulation seriously and trying
> to make it as good as some of the FPS online stuff out there! I can't wait
> to pay my $50+ US bucks or whatever it will be for N4 in order to support
> the awesome effort that has gone into making it possible for me to enjoy
> online racing at this level and with up to 32+ drivers at once! Any new
> goodies that N4 provides will be well worth the price no matter what video
> cards it supports the best! Just don't tell them that because I would
> really like to see a top racing sim support Transform and Lighting :)

> It makes me so technically happy that they've come this far that I think I'm
> going to cry, sniff sniff ;o)

> Bruce Moody
> Pro Racing Club - Advertising Manager
> Info: http://www.proracingclub.com
> Ads: http://www.proracingclub.com/N3/advertising/advertising.html

> Car #33 aka Deiter
> Sponsor: American Network Products - http://www.networkcenter.com

by **AKA PRC_Deit** » Thu, 11 May 2000 04:00:00

Man N4 and T&L would look saweeet on my CL AP Geforce DDR card. This only
makes me want N4 sooner now! wahhhhh! ;o) thanks for the information
Dave!
--

Bruce Moody AKA Deiter #33
Pro Racing Club Advertising Manager - http://www.proracingclub.com
Racing Sponsor : American Network Products - http://www.networkcenter.com
_______________________________________________________________

> Sorry If I missed that. Eric Busch formerly a sim racer here on ras,
> now a sound-code monkey with papyrus stated, either here or on Jacob's
> N3 server, that hardware accelerated T&L will be supported via D3D and
> Opengl. Glide will not be implemented at all. Our Voodoo cards will
> still work, using D3D or Opengl, but not with all the bells and
> whistles...
> I haven't pinned him down on the sound api yet... :)
> No inside info...just picking up the threads on a couple of different
> newsgroups.
> dave henrie

> > Dave Henrie mentioned in an earlier N4 thread that N4 will support
> > "Transform and Lighting" and Mike Carver asked for a source on how he
knows
> > that to be true.

> > I quickly read through all of those post but didn't see any replies.
Does
> > anyone have a source on the N4 T&L support?

> > PS. Ya, know, some may have their beefs against these some corporations
for
> > various reasons, but I just want to say ROCKON!!! to Sierra, Papy and
Won,
> > PRC and anyone else for taking online racing simulation seriously and
trying
> > to make it as good as some of the FPS online stuff out there! I can't
wait
> > to pay my $50+ US bucks or whatever it will be for N4 in order to
support
> > the awesome effort that has gone into making it possible for me to enjoy
> > online racing at this level and with up to 32+ drivers at once! Any new
> > goodies that N4 provides will be well worth the price no matter what
video
> > cards it supports the best! Just don't tell them that because I would
> > really like to see a top racing sim support Transform and Lighting :)

> > It makes me so technically happy that they've come this far that I think
I'm
> > going to cry, sniff sniff ;o)

> > Bruce Moody
> > Pro Racing Club - Advertising Manager
> > Info: http://www.proracingclub.com
> > Ads: http://www.proracingclub.com/N3/advertising/advertising.html

> > Car #33 aka Deiter
> > Sponsor: American Network Products - http://www.networkcenter.com

by **GEORGE ARUGAY MONTEMAY** » Fri, 12 May 2000 04:00:00

T&L will be necessary, even if you're just racing with a few cars.
Those realtime shadows are most likely implemented using the stencil
buffer (note, not all Voodoo cards support the stencil buffer, and I
am not sure Glide supports it either).

For example, with the correct settings, you can get Quake 3 to use
stencil-buffered shadows instead of the boring circle shadows -- if I
remember it correctly: r_stencilbits 8, cg_shadows 2, and a
vid_restart at the console -- but those took a massive framerate hit
mainly because it increased the polygon count quite considerably.

I can't wait for N4. In the meantime, I'm gonna put my CPU/Video card
upgrade on hold until N4 is released. Why buy something now for a
product currently not available? When N4 is out in 6 months, NVIDIA's
NV20 will be out for the picking. In the mean time, enjoy what you
have especially when it is more than enough for racing sims like GPL.

GM

: Man N4 and T&L would look saweeet on my CL AP Geforce DDR card. This only
: makes me want N4 sooner now! wahhhhh! ;o) thanks for the information
: Dave!
: --

: Bruce Moody AKA Deiter #33
: Pro Racing Club Advertising Manager - http://www.proracingclub.com
: Racing Sponsor : American Network Products - http://www.networkcenter.com

by **Steve Edward** » Sat, 13 May 2000 04:00:00

How can you say T&L will be necessary when hardware T&L today slows down
software compared to fast CPUs? It's like the Virge3D all over again, neat
idea but it ain't soup yet. A person would get better results from a 1Ghz
CPU than any hardware T&L board available.

Steve

by **GEORGE ARUGAY MONTEMAY** » Sat, 13 May 2000 04:00:00

How do you know that T&L games today are using T&L to their full
advantage? Could it be that these certain games just happen to
use T&L on one area in which the company then says "this game
supports T&L?" The concept is quite similar to CL's EAX support,
where any game can boast supporting EAX even if it doesn't do much.

Have you personally played the special NV15 Quake 3 level which sports
a massive polygon count with and without T&L?

GM

: How can you say T&L will be necessary when hardware T&L today slows down
: software compared to fast CPUs? It's like the Virge3D all over again, neat
: idea but it ain't soup yet. A person would get better results from a 1Ghz
: CPU than any hardware T&L board available.

: Steve

: >
: > T&L will be necessary, even if you're just racing with a few cars.
: > Those realtime shadows are most likely implemented using the stencil
: > buffer (note, not all Voodoo cards support the stencil buffer, and I
: > am not sure Glide supports it either).
: >

by **Steve Edward** » Sat, 13 May 2000 04:00:00

Point me to one reputable review site that shows a benchmark where HW T&L
beats software T&L with a fast CPU. If you can't I stay with my position.
In the mean time you can go to Toms Hardware, Sharky's or others and read
what I am saying.

Bedside's I think you are missing my point. I think T&L is a good idea.
The implementations todate just aren't better than doing it in the CPU.
They will get there and T&L will be a good thing. But for now, it's like
the Virge3D from S3 again, or don't you remember that?

Steve

> How do you know that T&L games today are using T&L to their full
> advantage? Could it be that these certain games just happen to
> use T&L on one area in which the company then says "this game
> supports T&L?" The concept is quite similar to CL's EAX support,
> where any game can boast supporting EAX even if it doesn't do much.

> Have you personally played the special NV15 Quake 3 level which sports
> a massive polygon count with and without T&L?

> GM

> : How can you say T&L will be necessary when hardware T&L today slows down
> : software compared to fast CPUs? It's like the Virge3D all over again,
neat
> : idea but it ain't soup yet. A person would get better results from a
1Ghz
> : CPU than any hardware T&L board available.

> : Steve

> : >
> : > T&L will be necessary, even if you're just racing with a few cars.
> : > Those realtime shadows are most likely implemented using the stencil
> : > buffer (note, not all Voodoo cards support the stencil buffer, and I
> : > am not sure Glide supports it either).
> : >

by **Ronald Stoeh** » Sat, 13 May 2000 04:00:00

> Point me to one reputable review site that shows a benchmark where HW T&L
> beats software T&L with a fast CPU. If you can't I stay with my position.
> In the mean time you can go to Toms Hardware, Sharky's or others and read
> what I am saying.

> Bedside's I think you are missing my point. I think T&L is a good idea.
> The implementations todate just aren't better than doing it in the CPU.
> They will get there and T&L will be a good thing. But for now, it's like
> the Virge3D from S3 again, or don't you remember that?

Well, it's just a trend with Nvidia. Putting features on the boards that
are nice on paper, but not usefull with current sw and hw.

32bit, BIG texture sizes, T&L, what's next? Raytracing on chip with 4 fps?
Each one of those features came at a time, where gamers turned had to turn
them off, or weren't used by the games.

Thanks, but I'll take FSAA in 32bit at 1024 with a mild fps hit instead.

l8er
ronny

--
"You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!"
"Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert.

rec.autos.simulators

N4 & Transform and Lighting

N4 & Transform and Lighting

N4 & Transform and Lighting

N4 & Transform and Lighting

N4 & Transform and Lighting

N4 & Transform and Lighting

N4 & Transform and Lighting

N4 & Transform and Lighting

N4 & Transform and Lighting