rec.autos.simulators

> Hmmm

> And your reply to this Thread is.....?
> I don't see it anywhere in here...

> And who cares about how good the AI is... I haven't raced against any AI
in over
> a year.  I'd rather race real people.  I'd rather see sim developers
concentrate
> on everything related to multiplayer than waste time on AI.

> Martyn_D

> > Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to
compete
> > with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked Nascar
1
> > with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrus game
,
> > i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I played the
press
> > release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alot
compared
> > to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSC
besides
> > that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really does alot to
the
> > demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated  tail happy physics engine
> > being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than a GPL
> > physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Ai and
way
> > better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realistic values
not
> > the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen in all
the
> > other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Let me
say
> > this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was in their
> > first press release version and the actual setup settings use real
values
> > and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticly aswell
and
> > the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would have
burnt it
> > for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance.

> > Robert GT86 Platts
> > www.bhmotorsports.com

> > > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people
playing
> > it
> > > > right now?

> > > Pity ;)

> > > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests!
> > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > -- http://www.WeRace.net
> > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
> > realise
> > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

> My point was int he first sentence the reason ebveryone is playing N3 is
> because they have had nobody to compete with. As for the Ai that is all you
> left with unless youa re one of the lucky ones that have access to high
> speed internet connections and even then people are still complaining about
> N3 and Won sucking worse than any multiplayer format we have ever had for
> racing. As for racing real people I rather do taht aswell but 90% of the
> people who race on Won are newbies who don't care about racing all they care
> about is seeing wrecks and I am one the vets that Frank was speakign of in
> another post and I won't race in that crap.Plus I 'm one of the many who
> believe for a game to be good oneline it has to be good offline aswell,
> because before you go online (newbies) you need to get use to traffic
> offline and learn how to control you car and run in a pack and to many
> people don't do that now as it is.

> Robert

> > Hmmm

> > And your reply to this Thread is.....?
> > I don't see it anywhere in here...

> > And who cares about how good the AI is... I haven't raced against any AI
> in over
> > a year.  I'd rather race real people.  I'd rather see sim developers
> concentrate
> > on everything related to multiplayer than waste time on AI.

> > Martyn_D

> > > Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to
> compete
> > > with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked Nascar
> 1
> > > with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrus game
> ,
> > > i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I played the
> press
> > > release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alot
> compared
> > > to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSC
> besides
> > > that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really does alot to
> the
> > > demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated  tail happy physics engine
> > > being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than a GPL
> > > physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Ai and
> way
> > > better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realistic values
> not
> > > the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen in all
> the
> > > other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Let me
> say
> > > this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was in their
> > > first press release version and the actual setup settings use real
> values
> > > and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticly aswell
> and
> > > the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would have
> burnt it
> > > for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance.

> > > Robert GT86 Platts
> > > www.bhmotorsports.com

> > > > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people
> playing
> > > it
> > > > > right now?

> > > > Pity ;)

> > > > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests!
> > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net
> > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
> > > realise
> > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

> Heh mebbe so that nobody is competing, however N3 was not the only nascar
sim to
> come out the last 18 months.
> 90% of the people on Won I doubt are newbies
> How do you account for the leagues? (alot of them)
> The reason N3 is being played alot and doing well, is because NOTHING esle
could
> touch it.  The competition sucked for one reason or another.
> Do a survey on Won, u'll find as I do, that STILL the majority of online
gamers
> are on dialup (jus cuz yer connect sux doesn't mean everyone else's does)
> Sure ppl whine about connects on Won, And they'll whine about NH, and
they'll
> whine about N4, and they'll whine about etc etc etc....
> Sure there are alotta wrecks on Won in Open races, hmmm but wow thats the
same
> as ANY race sim online when racing in OPEN races.

> If u think NH or N4 or ANY of the upcoming sims will fix ANY of the
above(with
> the exception of competition fer N3), I want a pound of whatever it is you
> smokin

> Martyn_D

> > My point was int he first sentence the reason ebveryone is playing N3 is
> > because they have had nobody to compete with. As for the Ai that is all
you
> > left with unless youa re one of the lucky ones that have access to high
> > speed internet connections and even then people are still complaining
about
> > N3 and Won sucking worse than any multiplayer format we have ever had
for
> > racing. As for racing real people I rather do taht aswell but 90% of the
> > people who race on Won are newbies who don't care about racing all they
care
> > about is seeing wrecks and I am one the vets that Frank was speakign of
in
> > another post and I won't race in that crap.Plus I 'm one of the many who
> > believe for a game to be good oneline it has to be good offline aswell,
> > because before you go online (newbies) you need to get use to traffic
> > offline and learn how to control you car and run in a pack and to many
> > people don't do that now as it is.

> > Robert

> > > Hmmm

> > > And your reply to this Thread is.....?
> > > I don't see it anywhere in here...

> > > And who cares about how good the AI is... I haven't raced against any
AI
> > in over
> > > a year.  I'd rather race real people.  I'd rather see sim developers
> > concentrate
> > > on everything related to multiplayer than waste time on AI.

> > > Martyn_D

> > > > Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to
> > compete
> > > > with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked
Nascar
> > 1
> > > > with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrus
game
> > ,
> > > > i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I played
the
> > press
> > > > release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alot
> > compared
> > > > to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSC
> > besides
> > > > that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really does
alot to
> > the
> > > > demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated  tail happy physics
engine
> > > > being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than a
GPL
> > > > physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Ai
and
> > way
> > > > better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realistic
values
> > not
> > > > the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen in
all
> > the
> > > > other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Let
me
> > say
> > > > this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was in
their
> > > > first press release version and the actual setup settings use real
> > values
> > > > and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticly
aswell
> > and
> > > > the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would have
> > burnt it
> > > > for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance.

> > > > Robert GT86 Platts
> > > > www.bhmotorsports.com

> > > > > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people
> > playing
> > > > it
> > > > > > right now?

> > > > > Pity ;)

> > > > > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests!
> > > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > > > -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they
don't
> > > > realise
> > > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

>  Hate to burst ya bubble but the racing on Won is 70%  or more drop in
> quality than what we had on Ten or Hawaii. Yes 90% of the people one Won are
> newbies, atleast newbies to me , and what I mean by this is people that were
> not racing N2 online on Ten and never raced a Nascar game from papy online
> until N3, they are either newbies your children , and both are bad for
> online racing. As for my connection, my connection isn't bad and connections
> don't have anything to do with bad online racing. Papyrus has stated many
> times over that the best speed for online racing in 19200 kbs. The problem
> with the warping online is the coding in the game with wall warps and the
> prediction coding, this is a very well known fact has been a known problem
> in papys games since N1. Yes there is alot more wrecks in open races , and
> it has doubled since Ten. As for leagues I am in two and they both have good
> drivers in it but because of the ***multiplayer coding in the game there
> are still way to many yellows, for example when you race at Atlanta online
> there is a bad problem with the cars warping on the front stretch  and
> Dobver has the same problem when you enter T3 and exit T4, its what we call
> side warp. I never said any of the upcoming games would fix the problems all
> I said is that N4 will have to have alot int he demo to impress me enough to
> buy the game. I am not like the majority of people on her ethat judge games
> and say games goign to be arcadish or great by looking at screenshots. Heres
> little tid bit for you guys alot of the papyrus screen shots are artist
> rendered
> shots which make them look better than what they are. Papy has been know to
> do this for many years its nothing new and its not a insult , its just a
> trick to make screen shots look better for people to look at.

> Robert

> > Heh mebbe so that nobody is competing, however N3 was not the only nascar
> sim to
> > come out the last 18 months.
> > 90% of the people on Won I doubt are newbies
> > How do you account for the leagues? (alot of them)
> > The reason N3 is being played alot and doing well, is because NOTHING esle
> could
> > touch it.  The competition sucked for one reason or another.
> > Do a survey on Won, u'll find as I do, that STILL the majority of online
> gamers
> > are on dialup (jus cuz yer connect sux doesn't mean everyone else's does)
> > Sure ppl whine about connects on Won, And they'll whine about NH, and
> they'll
> > whine about N4, and they'll whine about etc etc etc....
> > Sure there are alotta wrecks on Won in Open races, hmmm but wow thats the
> same
> > as ANY race sim online when racing in OPEN races.

> > If u think NH or N4 or ANY of the upcoming sims will fix ANY of the
> above(with
> > the exception of competition fer N3), I want a pound of whatever it is you
> > smokin

> > Martyn_D

> > > My point was int he first sentence the reason ebveryone is playing N3 is
> > > because they have had nobody to compete with. As for the Ai that is all
> you
> > > left with unless youa re one of the lucky ones that have access to high
> > > speed internet connections and even then people are still complaining
> about
> > > N3 and Won sucking worse than any multiplayer format we have ever had
> for
> > > racing. As for racing real people I rather do taht aswell but 90% of the
> > > people who race on Won are newbies who don't care about racing all they
> care
> > > about is seeing wrecks and I am one the vets that Frank was speakign of
> in
> > > another post and I won't race in that crap.Plus I 'm one of the many who
> > > believe for a game to be good oneline it has to be good offline aswell,
> > > because before you go online (newbies) you need to get use to traffic
> > > offline and learn how to control you car and run in a pack and to many
> > > people don't do that now as it is.

> > > Robert

> > > > Hmmm

> > > > And your reply to this Thread is.....?
> > > > I don't see it anywhere in here...

> > > > And who cares about how good the AI is... I haven't raced against any
> AI
> > > in over
> > > > a year.  I'd rather race real people.  I'd rather see sim developers
> > > concentrate
> > > > on everything related to multiplayer than waste time on AI.

> > > > Martyn_D

> > > > > Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to
> > > compete
> > > > > with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked
> Nascar
> > > 1
> > > > > with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrus
> game
> > > ,
> > > > > i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I played
> the
> > > press
> > > > > release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alot
> > > compared
> > > > > to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSC
> > > besides
> > > > > that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really does
> alot to
> > > the
> > > > > demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated  tail happy physics
> engine
> > > > > being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than a
> GPL
> > > > > physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Ai
> and
> > > way
> > > > > better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realistic
> values
> > > not
> > > > > the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen in
> all
> > > the
> > > > > other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Let
> me
> > > say
> > > > > this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was in
> their
> > > > > first press release version and the actual setup settings use real
> > > values
> > > > > and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticly
> aswell
> > > and
> > > > > the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would have
> > > burnt it
> > > > > for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance.

> > > > > Robert GT86 Platts
> > > > > www.bhmotorsports.com

> > > > > > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people
> > > playing
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > right now?

> > > > > > Pity ;)

> > > > > > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests!
> > > > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > > > > -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they
> don't
> > > > > realise
> > > > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

>>Is there a way to have an unnatended server for Legends?  If so, I might be
>>convinced to 'sacrifice' one of mine...<g>
>>Failing that, when do you guys want to race?  I'd like to join.

>No no no Eldred, you're not leaving GPL untill you broke the 8:50 at
>the Ring, remember! Now back you go!

>Andre

> Because until Nascar Heat comes out there hasn't been anything to compete
> with Papyrus. N2, N3, N99, N 50 and N2 are nothing but a repacked Nascar 1
> with updated graphics. Because of that I won't buy another Papyrus game ,
> i'll get the warez version, Nascar Heat I will buy since I played the
press
> release version at a friends house and it really impressed me alot
compared
> to what we have had since 1994. Only other game I will buy is WSC besides
> that nothing coming out impresses me. Unless Papyrus really does alot to
the
> demo to catch my attention, a over exagerated  tail happy physics engine
> being used in N4 doesn't impress me. Theres got to be more than a GPL
> physics model for me to buy it, like better multiplayer, better Ai and way
> better track physics and more realistic setup creation (realistic values
not
> the typical bloated tires and stiff shock settings we have seen in all the
> other papy titles) and more realistic tire wear and lap times. Let me say
> this NH Ai are the best Ai I have seen in any game and this was in their
> first press release version and the actual setup settings use real values
> and the laptimes are very realistic and drop off very realisticly aswell
and
> the build my buddy let me play is quite old now. Wish he would have burnt
it
> for me but it is numdered some he didn't want to take the chance.

> Robert GT86 Platts
> www.bhmotorsports.com

> > > And if N3 sux... why are there probably several hundred people playing
> it
> > > right now?

> > Pity ;)

> > -- Oh and 32 car pickup wreckfests!
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > -- http://www.WeRace.net
> > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
> realise
> > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

> ANY SIM u've been happy with in the last 4 years Robert?

> Doubt u gonna be happy this year, or next year, ... hmm prolly not the
year
> after either lol

> Martyn_D
> ofthecupishalffulltribe

> > > how do you know N4 will have an exaggerated tail happy car model if
you
> > > haven't driven it?

> > Where did I say N4 was going to be this way, I stated that a tail happy
> > physics engine from GPL isn't the solution.

> > If your surmising that "Will use the GPL physics engine"
> > > means that the  game will be using GPL car modeling you're wrong. What
it
> > > means is that the game will use the same physics, with different cars,
> > just
> > > like in real life all the cars exist in the same physical world, but
drive
> > > very differently.

> > > An enhanced 3rd generation physics model (the one used in GPL) is in
no
> > way
> > > related to the N3, N2, ICR2... physics modeling, so what your aren't
> > getting

> > Its a toned down GPl engine nothing new or enahnced about it.

> > > with N4 is another rehashed NASCAR title. This will guarantee what you
> > call
> > > "Better track physics" (what ever track physics are)

> > Track physics are having more than one fast groove, having changing
grooves
> > during the race , have the track change due to weather changes during
the
> > race (which brings up a another thing)

> > and definitely better
> > > lap times and more realistic setups. As a matter of fact, I think it
was
> > > papy that said you could drop in a real setup and have the car perform
> > very
> > > close to it's real life counterpart.

> > This remains to be seen I have talked to people who drove the game ay E3
and
> > they say you can drive on the aprons through turns just Like N1-N3, this
is
> > very disappointing.

> > > As for AI, from what I've heard GPL is much better than the legacy
NASCAR
> > > stuff, so Papy's newest work should be an advancement over legacy
NASCAR.

> > Yes GPl has better Ai than papy's Nascar titles but they aren't that
great
> > they will battle your for about 2 laps then they give up after you pass
> > them.

> > > As for online, I believe Nascar Heat will only allow something like 8
> > > players,

> > It has been stated in a interview that this could possible set to a
higher
> > number

> > which works pretty wall in N3, let alone that times you get 20
> > > people going good. I'm sure papy is doing what they can with current
> > > internet architecture, which isn't great.

> > > FWIW, whether or not a game is bad, piracy is still robbery. If you
plan
> > to
> > > play the game, then you are morally obligated to buy the game, or not
play

> > I'm not obilgated to do nothing that I don't feel  like I need to do.

> > > it. If you decide to be one of the downfallers of society who don't
think
> > of
> > > community, but only self interest, then I guess you'll just be another
> > > person forcing the governments to make stupid laws.

> > They do that regardless, all I meant from my post is that I will not
support
> > Papyrus once again like I have since 1994 unless the demo shows so great
> > stuff, if it doesn't they won't get my money again. I have bought every
game
> > they have released since N1 with promises on top of promises of what th
> > egame will have and what will get once we get the  game (NROS for one
and
> > authnic Nascar racing for another) just to be jipped by them for $50
each
> > time and I won't fall for it again.

> > Robert

> >No no no Eldred, you're not leaving GPL untill you broke the 8:50 at
> >the Ring, remember! Now back you go!

> >Andre

> Argh - I need a break from GPL.  It was *that* close to being deleted off
my
> hard drive.  It kept pissing me off...

> Eldred
> --

> > how do you know N4 will have an exaggerated tail happy car model if you
> > haven't driven it?

> Where did I say N4 was going to be this way, I stated that a tail happy
> physics engine from GPL isn't the solution.

> If your surmising that "Will use the GPL physics engine"
> > means that the  game will be using GPL car modeling you're wrong. What it
> > means is that the game will use the same physics, with different cars,
> just
> > like in real life all the cars exist in the same physical world, but drive
> > very differently.

> > An enhanced 3rd generation physics model (the one used in GPL) is in no
> way
> > related to the N3, N2, ICR2... physics modeling, so what your aren't
> getting

> Its a toned down GPl engine nothing new or enahnced about it.

> > with N4 is another rehashed NASCAR title. This will guarantee what you
> call
> > "Better track physics" (what ever track physics are)

> Track physics are having more than one fast groove, having changing grooves
> during the race , have the track change due to weather changes during the
> race (which brings up a another thing)

> and definitely better
> > lap times and more realistic setups. As a matter of fact, I think it was
> > papy that said you could drop in a real setup and have the car perform
> very
> > close to it's real life counterpart.

> This remains to be seen I have talked to people who drove the game ay E3 and
> they say you can drive on the aprons through turns just Like N1-N3, this is
> very disappointing.

> > As for AI, from what I've heard GPL is much better than the legacy NASCAR
> > stuff, so Papy's newest work should be an advancement over legacy NASCAR.

> Yes GPl has better Ai than papy's Nascar titles but they aren't that great
> they will battle your for about 2 laps then they give up after you pass
> them.

> > As for online, I believe Nascar Heat will only allow something like 8
> > players,

> It has been stated in a interview that this could possible set to a higher
> number

> which works pretty wall in N3, let alone that times you get 20
> > people going good. I'm sure papy is doing what they can with current
> > internet architecture, which isn't great.

> > FWIW, whether or not a game is bad, piracy is still robbery. If you plan
> to
> > play the game, then you are morally obligated to buy the game, or not play

> I'm not obilgated to do nothing that I don't feel  like I need to do.

> > it. If you decide to be one of the downfallers of society who don't think
> of
> > community, but only self interest, then I guess you'll just be another
> > person forcing the governments to make stupid laws.

> They do that regardless, all I meant from my post is that I will not support
> Papyrus once again like I have since 1994 unless the demo shows so great
> stuff, if it doesn't they won't get my money again. I have bought every game
> they have released since N1 with promises on top of promises of what th
> egame will have and what will get once we get the  game (NROS for one and
> authnic Nascar racing for another) just to be jipped by them for $50 each
> time and I won't fall for it again.

> Robert