rec.autos.simulators

by **Tom Pabs** » Wed, 04 Sep 2002 07:31:09

Hi Guys....

Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture jobs
I've done in the last two months.

The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards
with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per my "tweaks"
log
(www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not
apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU,
there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.

What's The Problem?
There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers,
grandstands....are the most likely to show it.

Why?
Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created by
Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command indicating the
graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the transparent
color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip sub-images at the
low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file (trees,
grandstands, light poles, etc.).

What's the Fix?
There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even then, I'm
not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he also fixes
the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I have to go
back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by
hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there are over
1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing this so those
of you with low-end systems don't have this problem. Sorry...that's just a
fact of life.

I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear back from
Klaus as to his "prognosis."

Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of screenshots to
show this problem, I don't need any more.

Thanks,

Tom

by **Tom Pabs** » Wed, 04 Sep 2002 07:34:39

Mis-spelled the URL link (sorry)...try:

www.pabst-racing.com/webscreens/tweaks.xls

TP

by **Schoone** » Wed, 04 Sep 2002 07:46:54

Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause more
problems than good.

by **Doug Elliso** » Wed, 04 Sep 2002 08:34:24

Been thru all that m'larkey and indeed - they no longer look like they went
thru the wash with some purple socks.

Still trying a few tweaks - but all in all - good stuff

Doug

by **Tom Pabs** » Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:19:45

Doug....

All you needed to do for the "purple" problem....is the N2K2 settings.
Actually, just run 1280 or above res....and -1.0 LOD setting (or lower).

Although, it wouldn't hurt to try all the other settings, most people get a
substantial increase in FPS and picture quality.

TP

> > Hi Guys....

> > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture
jobs
> > I've done in the last two months.

> > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards
> > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per my
> "tweaks"
> > log
> > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not
> > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU,
> > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.

> Been thru all that m'larkey and indeed - they no longer look like they
went
> thru the wash with some purple socks.

> Still trying a few tweaks - but all in all - good stuff

> Doug

by **Tom Pabs** » Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:22:07

Schooner...

This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existing files...........its
nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which you are
advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textures with anyway.
If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing some nice
realistic looking track graphics.

TP

> Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause more
> problems than good.

> > Hi Guys....

> > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture
jobs
> > I've done in the last two months.

> > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards
> > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per my
> "tweaks"
> > log
> > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not
> > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU,
> > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.

> > What's The Problem?
> > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers,
> > grandstands....are the most likely to show it.

> > Why?
> > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created by
> > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command indicating
> the
> > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the
transparent
> > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip sub-images at
the
> > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file (trees,
> > grandstands, light poles, etc.).

> > What's the Fix?
> > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even then,
> I'm
> > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he also
fixes
> > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I have
to
> go
> > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by
> > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there are
over
> > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing this so
> those
> > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem. Sorry...that's
just
> a
> > fact of life.

> > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear back
> from
> > Klaus as to his "prognosis."

> > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of
screenshots
> to
> > show this problem, I don't need any more.

> > Thanks,

> > Tom

by **Doug Elliso** » Wed, 04 Sep 2002 17:45:15

I tried the full batch of tweaks - and the quality suffered quite a lot - by
clawing the mapping level back from 2, to 1, it improved again a little -
but anything closer to 0 than that - and it's pink-city again

Doug

by **Ruud van Ga** » Wed, 04 Sep 2002 18:09:41

Well, I'd say with those purple pixels in there, any card that does
h/w generated mipmaps would have the same problem. I think. ;-)
What the LOADER should do is kill of all purple pixels, replace them
with say black+alpha=0, and THEN generate mipmaps.
Ofcourse, use .tga's with alpha and you're all set. :)

If WinMip2 creates the mipmaps itself then that's possible, but odd. I
create mipmaps only during loading time. Saves some disk space, and
CPU time wasted is so low these days so it doesn't make a difference.
And it should be done by the gfxcards anyway in the end.

So do the WinMip generated files actually include all the mipmap
levels already? (ofcourse that means you are able to give those
mipmaps a nicer filter but still)

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/
Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

by **Schoone** » Wed, 04 Sep 2002 19:41:36

You also said it only worked on nVidia cards not just an issue on low end
systems. I appreciate the work but seems like a lot of hoops to jump
through to get them to work is all.

> Schooner...

> This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existing files...........its
> nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which you are
> advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textures with
anyway.
> If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing some nice
> realistic looking track graphics.

> TP

> > Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause more
> > problems than good.

> > > Hi Guys....

> > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture
> jobs
> > > I've done in the last two months.

> > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4
cards
> > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per my
> > "tweaks"
> > > log
> > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not
> > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU,
> > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.

> > > What's The Problem?
> > > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers,
> > > grandstands....are the most likely to show it.

> > > Why?
> > > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created
by
> > > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command
indicating
> > the
> > > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the
> transparent
> > > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip sub-images at
> the
> > > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file
(trees,
> > > grandstands, light poles, etc.).

> > > What's the Fix?
> > > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even
then,
> > I'm
> > > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he also
> fixes
> > > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I have
> to
> > go
> > > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by
> > > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there are
> over
> > > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing this so
> > those
> > > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem. Sorry...that's
> just
> > a
> > > fact of life.

> > > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear
back
> > from
> > > Klaus as to his "prognosis."

> > > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of
> screenshots
> > to
> > > show this problem, I don't need any more.

> > > Thanks,

> > > Tom

by **Tom Pabs** » Thu, 05 Sep 2002 01:01:00

Doug...

I first read this reply and assumed you just didn't type the <negative> in
front of your numbers.....but then, in afterthought, maybe you didn't see
the <-> in front of mine. The LOD mip level should be set between "minus
1.0 and minus 2.0" - settings of 0 to 2.0 would be a very bad quality
picture. Just checking.

TP

PS: Doug, you'd be the only person who ever reported bad quality graphics
using those settings......so that's what made me thing you didn't read the
numbers correctly.

> > Doug....

> > All you needed to do for the "purple" problem....is the N2K2 settings.
> > Actually, just run 1280 or above res....and -1.0 LOD setting (or lower).

> > Although, it wouldn't hurt to try all the other settings, most people
get
> a
> > substantial increase in FPS and picture quality.

> > TP

> I tried the full batch of tweaks - and the quality suffered quite a lot -
by
> clawing the mapping level back from 2, to 1, it improved again a little -
> but anything closer to 0 than that - and it's pink-city again

> Doug

by **Tom Pabs** » Thu, 05 Sep 2002 01:13:02

Schooner...

I'd prefer not to even answer your reply......because apparently making sure
your system settings and video card settings are correct and optimized for
FPS and max quality graphics levels "is a chore" for you. That's fine, and
I don't care one way or the other if you run these track re-textures or not.
Its your loss, not mine (assuming you have a system strong enough to do so).
But, you keep making misleading statements, which could deter someone else
from running them who would like to have better, more realistic track
graphics. Therefore, I must reply.

I did not say the "re-textured" tracks work only on Nv cards. I said, "they
are optimized" for Nvidia cards.....as are just about every graphic upgrade
created today in the sim world. So, are the original track textures in most
sims as well. "Optimized" does not mean "works only on" - now does it?

The "settings" discussed as necessary to avoid seeing the "purple haze"
around some objects on the track are the settings one should be using in the
first place. Those reporting the "purple haze" clearly don't have their
video card "properties settings" correct (as was recently discovered).
Correcting that issue is "not jumping through hoops." Its correcting a
mistake the user has made. Making those corrections will not only prevent
the "purple haze" on my re-textured tracks....but it will also substantially
improve the graphics on all tracks...in ALL sims!

I'd appreciate you stop trying to "knock something around"....just because
you are not familiar with it. Okay?

Regards,

Tom

> You also said it only worked on nVidia cards not just an issue on low end
> systems. I appreciate the work but seems like a lot of hoops to jump
> through to get them to work is all.

> > Schooner...

> > This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existing files...........its
> > nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which you are
> > advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textures with
> anyway.
> > If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing some nice
> > realistic looking track graphics.

> > TP

> > > Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause more
> > > problems than good.

> > > > Hi Guys....

> > > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture
> > jobs
> > > > I've done in the last two months.

> > > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4
> cards
> > > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per my
> > > "tweaks"
> > > > log
> > > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not
> > > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow
CPU,
> > > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.

> > > > What's The Problem?
> > > > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers,
> > > > grandstands....are the most likely to show it.

> > > > Why?
> > > > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created
> by
> > > > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command
> indicating
> > > the
> > > > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the
> > transparent
> > > > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip sub-images
at
> > the
> > > > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file
> (trees,
> > > > grandstands, light poles, etc.).

> > > > What's the Fix?
> > > > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even
> then,
> > > I'm
> > > > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he also
> > fixes
> > > > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I
have
> > to
> > > go
> > > > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by
> > > > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there are
> > over
> > > > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing this
so
> > > those
> > > > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem. Sorry...that's
> > just
> > > a
> > > > fact of life.

> > > > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear
> back
> > > from
> > > > Klaus as to his "prognosis."

> > > > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of
> > screenshots
> > > to
> > > > show this problem, I don't need any more.

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Tom

by **Tom Pabs** » Thu, 05 Sep 2002 01:55:35

Ruud...

First of all, the use of the "purple color" for a transparency color is
something not unique to Papyrus. However, they do it more often than some
other sims I've done graphics for. Its typical of not only the NASCAR
series mips....but GPL as well. I have seen this issue for more than five
years now....since I first started doing track graphics on Papy sims back in
the N3 days. The reason they use that color is because it doesn't appear
anywhere in the "natural color" range (sky, grass, trees, etc.) or on most
"objects" colors found in/on a race track. When you are "painting" an
object (say a grandstand) you use various methods for dithering, shading and
color toning to create a realistic "picture" of that object on the track.
The "field of color" the flat graphic file is painted on.....can't be a
color that is also in the object itself. Because the "field color" is going
to be designated as "transparent" to the game graphics engine. If you were
to choose, say "0-0-0 black" as your field color.....then any place that
color existed in the object would be transparent....and your object would
have "holes" in it when displayed on the sim track. If I'm painting a
"tree" I'm going to use a field color that couldn't possibly be contained in
that tree painting. With 16 million colors used to create that
tree....there's a color range I can safely use for the field color. More
often than not, the "safe" color is something of a bright pink. That is why
papy uses that color for their transparent field color.....on most mips.
Does that make sense?

Back in the old N3 days and initial GPL graphics upgrades days.......Papy
didn't use this bright pink very often. Why? Because the mip compression
routine used by DirectX (I assume DX dictates this...but not totally sure of
it....perhaps there's a "game industry" graphic artists who visit r.a.s. who
can clarify this)....didn't allow for the "compression" to actually ignore a
designated "transparent" color. What you'd see is the field color used was
close to....or compatible with....what ever the surrounding color would be
of the object when displayed on the track. For example....a fence that
would most likely be viewed with the sky as its backdrop on the
track.....would use a "blue hue" color as the fence object field color in
the mip. I guess this was because the edge color on the fence, would be
average with the field color of the mip.....so the very edge of the fence
would have a blue tone to it. When viewing the fence object against a blue
sky.....that "edge" would be correctly colored. That's great, only if the
"fence" was always viewed with a blue sky in the back drop. But, what if a
hillside come into the frame? All of a sudden, the fence edge would be
blue....with the brown hill as a backdrop. This was a huge problem for all
the "walls" in N3 and in GPL.....in the early days.

Papy's mip files.....for as long as I've been doing graphics on their
tracks, do contain the "sub-images" within the mip. This is unlike EA
sports track graphics (for example), which are bitmaps and the "hardware"
compresses them and mipmapps (to subimages) them as well. I don't know why
papy does it this way, I'm sure they have a very good reason and perhaps
someone can tell us. Back in the days when our video cards did not have
"LOD" sliders......particularly in the 3dfx video card heyday.....I could
improve the "viewed" graphic images simply by reducing the mip level
subimages (say reducing it from 8 subimages to 4 subimages), when I created
the mip file. In effect, I was creating mip files with a "built in LOD
slider." That tool is no longer needed since the same thing can be done
with the LOD slider, which simply limits the level of low-level subimages
displayed by the video card.

I don't want to give away any of the "techniques" Klaus Horbrand uses in his
WinMip2 program for converting bmps to mips (papy mips). Since I don't know
what he considers "proprietary" and what he doesn't.....I'll leave any
explanation of how his WinMip2 programs works....to him (should he desire to
explain that if he reads this post). What I can tell you is that the
low-level subimages are somehow not adhering to his programming command to
"ignore the field transparent color" in the compression averaging routine
Klaus uses - only on the low level mips (why....I don't know). So, you end
up say with a mip file with 9 sub-images.....subs #7, #8 and #9 have the
objects "edge" slightly pink! If you set your LOD slider so the lowest
level subimage displayed is #6....then you never see the "purple haze" color
on the object. Does that make sense...I hope?

As you can see....."the use of .tga's" or any other graphic file format is
not an option....when re-texturing papyrus tracks for N2K2. And, without
some sort of a "converter" that can create bmps out of papy's mip
files.....this re-texture work would never be possible. Klaus Horbrand has
been making WinMip converters for as long as I can remember.....diligently
coming out with a version every time papy releases a new sim. I think David
Noonan uses some of the same conversion "techniques" that Klaus does....but
I don't think they use the same programming/converter. I could be wrong
about that. As far as I'm concerned, my "hobby" of doing these track
graphics is only possible because of Klaus...and in the past, because of
David. I thank them a million times, every time I can.

Sorry for the length of this response....but its somewhat of a complicated
topic....and I'm a "wordy SOB" anyway! ....lol...

Regards,

Tom

PS: Some day, I plan to try to do some graphic work on your "Racer"
tracks......if I can find the time.

> >Hi Guys....

> >Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track re-texture jobs
> >I've done in the last two months.

> >The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards
> >with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per my
"tweaks"
> >log
> >(www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is not
> >apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow CPU,
> >there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.

> >What's The Problem?
> >There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees, towers,
> >grandstands....are the most likely to show it.

> >Why?
> >Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2 (created by
> >Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command indicating
the
> >graphic file's "transparent" color.

> Well, I'd say with those purple pixels in there, any card that does
> h/w generated mipmaps would have the same problem. I think. ;-)
> What the LOADER should do is kill of all purple pixels, replace them
> with say black+alpha=0, and THEN generate mipmaps.
> Ofcourse, use .tga's with alpha and you're all set. :)

> If WinMip2 creates the mipmaps itself then that's possible, but odd. I
> create mipmaps only during loading time. Saves some disk space, and
> CPU time wasted is so low these days so it doesn't make a difference.
> And it should be done by the gfxcards anyway in the end.

> So do the WinMip generated files actually include all the mipmap
> levels already? (ofcourse that means you are able to give those
> mipmaps a nicer filter but still)

> Ruud van Gaal
> Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/
> Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

by **Schoone** » Thu, 05 Sep 2002 02:20:46

Whatever Tom. I know how to tweak my settings thanks. If you don't want to
reply then don't feel a need to.
Perhaps learn to take a bit of criticism from time to time, like myself you
are not correct 100% of the time either.
And please don't assume if I have a good enough system or not or that it is
optimized, not sure how you assumed it's not but I guess that's your way of
feeling big is to run others down without information.
What you assume are "correct" settings are based on your opinion, not fact
or industry known proofs.
I'd appreciate you not spouting off as the expert in all areas when clearly
you are not.

What you said was "Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track
re-texture jobs I've done in the last two months.
The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards
with high-end CPU's."
From that I got the impression that the textures only worked properly with a
GF4 card which you state. You seem to believe that all people with a high
end system would be running a GF4 but many of us use ATI in our high end
systems.

> Schooner...

> I'd prefer not to even answer your reply......because apparently making
sure
> your system settings and video card settings are correct and optimized for
> FPS and max quality graphics levels "is a chore" for you. That's fine,
and
> I don't care one way or the other if you run these track re-textures or
not.
> Its your loss, not mine (assuming you have a system strong enough to do
so).
> But, you keep making misleading statements, which could deter someone else
> from running them who would like to have better, more realistic track
> graphics. Therefore, I must reply.

> I did not say the "re-textured" tracks work only on Nv cards. I said,
"they
> are optimized" for Nvidia cards.....as are just about every graphic
upgrade
> created today in the sim world. So, are the original track textures in
most
> sims as well. "Optimized" does not mean "works only on" - now does it?

> The "settings" discussed as necessary to avoid seeing the "purple haze"
> around some objects on the track are the settings one should be using in
the
> first place. Those reporting the "purple haze" clearly don't have their
> video card "properties settings" correct (as was recently discovered).
> Correcting that issue is "not jumping through hoops." Its correcting a
> mistake the user has made. Making those corrections will not only prevent
> the "purple haze" on my re-textured tracks....but it will also
substantially
> improve the graphics on all tracks...in ALL sims!

> I'd appreciate you stop trying to "knock something around"....just because
> you are not familiar with it. Okay?

> Regards,

> Tom

> > You also said it only worked on nVidia cards not just an issue on low
end
> > systems. I appreciate the work but seems like a lot of hoops to jump
> > through to get them to work is all.

> > > Schooner...

> > > This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existing
files...........its
> > > nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which you are
> > > advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textures with
> > anyway.
> > > If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing some nice
> > > realistic looking track graphics.

> > > TP

> > > > Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause more
> > > > problems than good.

> > > > > Hi Guys....

> > > > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track
re-texture
> > > jobs
> > > > > I've done in the last two months.

> > > > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4
> > cards
> > > > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per
my
> > > > "tweaks"
> > > > > log
> > > > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is
not
> > > > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow
> CPU,
> > > > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.

> > > > > What's The Problem?
> > > > > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees,
towers,
> > > > > grandstands....are the most likely to show it.

> > > > > Why?
> > > > > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2
(created
> > by
> > > > > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command
> > indicating
> > > > the
> > > > > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the
> > > transparent
> > > > > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip
sub-images
> at
> > > the
> > > > > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file
> > (trees,
> > > > > grandstands, light poles, etc.).

> > > > > What's the Fix?
> > > > > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even
> > then,
> > > > I'm
> > > > > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he
also
> > > fixes
> > > > > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I
> have
> > > to
> > > > go
> > > > > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by
> > > > > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there
are
> > > over
> > > > > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing
this
> so
> > > > those
> > > > > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem.
Sorry...that's
> > > just
> > > > a
> > > > > fact of life.

> > > > > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear
> > back
> > > > from
> > > > > Klaus as to his "prognosis."

> > > > > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of
> > > screenshots
> > > > to
> > > > > show this problem, I don't need any more.

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > Tom

by **Biz** » Thu, 05 Sep 2002 02:38:30

What is your problem? If you don't want to use his stuff, don't. Although I wish Tom's updates
could work as flawlessly as the original textures, he does them for himself, and they look fine on
his system, so he owes you no explanantion. Why don't you grow a pair and go away? Your criticism
is NOT WELCOME here.
--
Biz

"Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and
the....." - Ash

> Whatever Tom. I know how to tweak my settings thanks. If you don't want to
> reply then don't feel a need to.
> Perhaps learn to take a bit of criticism from time to time, like myself you
> are not correct 100% of the time either.
> And please don't assume if I have a good enough system or not or that it is
> optimized, not sure how you assumed it's not but I guess that's your way of
> feeling big is to run others down without information.
> What you assume are "correct" settings are based on your opinion, not fact
> or industry known proofs.
> I'd appreciate you not spouting off as the expert in all areas when clearly
> you are not.

> What you said was "Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track
> re-texture jobs I've done in the last two months.
> The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards
> with high-end CPU's."
> From that I got the impression that the textures only worked properly with a
> GF4 card which you state. You seem to believe that all people with a high
> end system would be running a GF4 but many of us use ATI in our high end
> systems.

> > Schooner...

> > I'd prefer not to even answer your reply......because apparently making
> sure
> > your system settings and video card settings are correct and optimized for
> > FPS and max quality graphics levels "is a chore" for you. That's fine,
> and
> > I don't care one way or the other if you run these track re-textures or
> not.
> > Its your loss, not mine (assuming you have a system strong enough to do
> so).
> > But, you keep making misleading statements, which could deter someone else
> > from running them who would like to have better, more realistic track
> > graphics. Therefore, I must reply.

> > I did not say the "re-textured" tracks work only on Nv cards. I said,
> "they
> > are optimized" for Nvidia cards.....as are just about every graphic
> upgrade
> > created today in the sim world. So, are the original track textures in
> most
> > sims as well. "Optimized" does not mean "works only on" - now does it?

> > The "settings" discussed as necessary to avoid seeing the "purple haze"
> > around some objects on the track are the settings one should be using in
> the
> > first place. Those reporting the "purple haze" clearly don't have their
> > video card "properties settings" correct (as was recently discovered).
> > Correcting that issue is "not jumping through hoops." Its correcting a
> > mistake the user has made. Making those corrections will not only prevent
> > the "purple haze" on my re-textured tracks....but it will also
> substantially
> > improve the graphics on all tracks...in ALL sims!

> > I'd appreciate you stop trying to "knock something around"....just because
> > you are not familiar with it. Okay?

> > Regards,

> > Tom

> > > You also said it only worked on nVidia cards not just an issue on low
> end
> > > systems. I appreciate the work but seems like a lot of hoops to jump
> > > through to get them to work is all.

> > > > Schooner...

> > > > This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existing
> files...........its
> > > > nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which you are
> > > > advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textures with
> > > anyway.
> > > > If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing some nice
> > > > realistic looking track graphics.

> > > > TP

> > > > > Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause more
> > > > > problems than good.

> > > > > > Hi Guys....

> > > > > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track
> re-texture
> > > > jobs
> > > > > > I've done in the last two months.

> > > > > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4
> > > cards
> > > > > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as per
> my
> > > > > "tweaks"
> > > > > > log
> > > > > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem is
> not
> > > > > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a slow
> > CPU,
> > > > > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.

> > > > > > What's The Problem?
> > > > > > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees,
> towers,
> > > > > > grandstands....are the most likely to show it.

> > > > > > Why?
> > > > > > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2
> (created
> > > by
> > > > > > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command
> > > indicating
> > > > > the
> > > > > > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the
> > > > transparent
> > > > > > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip
> sub-images
> > at
> > > > the
> > > > > > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the file
> > > (trees,
> > > > > > grandstands, light poles, etc.).

> > > > > > What's the Fix?
> > > > > > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2. Even
> > > then,
> > > > > I'm
> > > > > > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he
> also
> > > > fixes
> > > > > > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time. If I
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > go
> > > > > > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them by
> > > > > > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and there
> are
> > > > over
> > > > > > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing
> this
> > so
> > > > > those
> > > > > > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem.
> Sorry...that's
> > > > just
> > > > > a
> > > > > > fact of life.

> > > > > > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I hear
> > > back
> > > > > from
> > > > > > Klaus as to his "prognosis."

> > > > > > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of
> > > > screenshots
> > > > > to
> > > > > > show this problem, I don't need any more.

> > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > Tom

by **Schoone** » Thu, 05 Sep 2002 02:46:19

???
Ok I won't say another word on this. Was just pointing out it that these
files and tweaks may not work for all. Sorry I mentioned any issues at all.

"Biz" <biznos...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

news:qs6d9.50483$Ke2.3526632@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> What is your problem? If you don't want to use his stuff, don't.

Although I wish Tom's updates

> could work as flawlessly as the original textures, he does them for

himself, and they look fine on

> his system, so he owes you no explanantion. Why don't you grow a pair and

go away? Your criticism

> is NOT WELCOME here.
> --
> Biz

> "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
> alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and
> the....." - Ash

> Schooner <schoo...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message

news:8a6d9.55600$C8.148303@nnrp1.uunet.ca...

> > Whatever Tom. I know how to tweak my settings thanks. If you don't want
to
> > reply then don't feel a need to.
> > Perhaps learn to take a bit of criticism from time to time, like myself
you
> > are not correct 100% of the time either.
> > And please don't assume if I have a good enough system or not or that it
is
> > optimized, not sure how you assumed it's not but I guess that's your way
of
> > feeling big is to run others down without information.
> > What you assume are "correct" settings are based on your opinion, not
fact
> > or industry known proofs.
> > I'd appreciate you not spouting off as the expert in all areas when
clearly
> > you are not.

> > What you said was "Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four
track
> > re-texture jobs I've done in the last two months.
> > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running GF4 cards
> > with high-end CPU's."
> > From that I got the impression that the textures only worked properly
with a
> > GF4 card which you state. You seem to believe that all people with a
high
> > end system would be running a GF4 but many of us use ATI in our high end
> > systems.

> > "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > news:ic5d9.345749$UU1.59502@sccrnsc03...
> > > Schooner...

> > > I'd prefer not to even answer your reply......because apparently
making
> > sure
> > > your system settings and video card settings are correct and optimized
for
> > > FPS and max quality graphics levels "is a chore" for you. That's
fine,
> > and
> > > I don't care one way or the other if you run these track re-textures
or
> > not.
> > > Its your loss, not mine (assuming you have a system strong enough to
do
> > so).
> > > But, you keep making misleading statements, which could deter someone
else
> > > from running them who would like to have better, more realistic track
> > > graphics. Therefore, I must reply.

> > > I did not say the "re-textured" tracks work only on Nv cards. I said,
> > "they
> > > are optimized" for Nvidia cards.....as are just about every graphic
> > upgrade
> > > created today in the sim world. So, are the original track textures
in
> > most
> > > sims as well. "Optimized" does not mean "works only on" - now does
it?

> > > The "settings" discussed as necessary to avoid seeing the "purple
haze"
> > > around some objects on the track are the settings one should be using
in
> > the
> > > first place. Those reporting the "purple haze" clearly don't have
their
> > > video card "properties settings" correct (as was recently discovered).
> > > Correcting that issue is "not jumping through hoops." Its correcting
a
> > > mistake the user has made. Making those corrections will not only
prevent
> > > the "purple haze" on my re-textured tracks....but it will also
> > substantially
> > > improve the graphics on all tracks...in ALL sims!

> > > I'd appreciate you stop trying to "knock something around"....just
because
> > > you are not familiar with it. Okay?

> > > Regards,

> > > Tom

> > > "Schooner" <schoo...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:Ej0d9.55068$C8.146381@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> > > > You also said it only worked on nVidia cards not just an issue on
low
> > end
> > > > systems. I appreciate the work but seems like a lot of hoops to
jump
> > > > through to get them to work is all.

> > > > "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:39Uc9.338029$UU1.57962@sccrnsc03...
> > > > > Schooner...

> > > > > This didn't cause any "corruptions" of any existing
> > files...........its
> > > > > nothing but a "visual anomalies" on lower end systems....which you
are
> > > > > advised in the readme.txt file not to use these track textures
with
> > > > anyway.
> > > > > If your system is up to snuff.....try them, you are missing some
nice
> > > > > realistic looking track graphics.

> > > > > TP

> > > > > "Schooner" <schoo...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:xRRc9.54908$C8.143712@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> > > > > > Thus the reason I avoid most add-ons and tweaks, they can cause
more
> > > > > > problems than good.

> > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:NERc9.95008$kp.741548@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> > > > > > > Hi Guys....

> > > > > > > Well, unfortunately we have a problem with all four track
> > re-texture
> > > > > jobs
> > > > > > > I've done in the last two months.

> > > > > > > The good news is....its not a problem for those of you running
GF4
> > > > cards
> > > > > > > with high-end CPU's. If you run your video card settings as
per
> > my
> > > > > > "tweaks"
> > > > > > > log
> > > > > > > (www.pabst-racing.com/websreens/tweaks.xls) then the problem
is
> > not
> > > > > > > apparent in N2K2. If you have any other video card....or a
slow
> > > CPU,
> > > > > > > there's no current "fix" for this problem at this time.

> > > > > > > What's The Problem?
> > > > > > > There's a purple haze coloring to distant objects.....trees,
> > towers,
> > > > > > > grandstands....are the most likely to show it.

> > > > > > > Why?
> > > > > > > Because the mip mapping compression routine used by WinMip2
> > (created
> > > > by
> > > > > > > Klaus Horbrand) has a bug that doesn't adhere to the command
> > > > indicating
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > graphic file's "transparent" color. Instead, it includes the
> > > > > transparent
> > > > > > > color in the compression averaging. This means, the mip
> > sub-images
> > > at
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > low end.....get this purpose haze around the objects in the
file
> > > > (trees,
> > > > > > > grandstands, light poles, etc.).

> > > > > > > What's the Fix?
> > > > > > > There isn't one until Klaus finds the bug and fixes WinMip2.
Even
> > > > then,
> > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > not inclined to go back and re-do all these files....unless he
> > also
> > > > > fixes
> > > > > > > the "batch conversion" routine in WinMip2 at the same time.
If I
> > > have
> > > > > to
> > > > > > go
> > > > > > > back through all these files one by one....and re-convert them
by
> > > > > > > hand.......that will take about 15 minutes per file....and
there
> > are
> > > > > over
> > > > > > > 1200 of them. Ain't no way I'm going to spend 300 hours doing
> > this
> > > so
> > > > > > those
> > > > > > > of you with low-end systems don't have this problem.
> > Sorry...that's
> > > > > just
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > fact of life.

> > > > > > > I will keep you posted through this string only.......until I
hear
> > > > back
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > Klaus as to his "prognosis."

> > > > > > > Please do not email me about this....I already have plenty of
> > > > > screenshots
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > show this problem, I don't need any more.

> > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > Tom

rec.autos.simulators

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures

"Purple Haze" Bug on My N2K2 Track Re-Textures