rec.autos.simulators

> --
> Mike Grandy
> www.precision-racing.com


> > If Sierra *really* wanted to follow the lead of other companies, they
> > could always drop the price of N2002 to $30-40 and charge us $20/month
> > to use their matchmaking service...

> > > I'm guessing a lot of people are, just look at the EA Sports
franchise.
> They
> > > have released basically the same NHL game for the last 4 years, and
> people
> > > still buy it. While a lot of people are saying, "Oh...it is just N4.1,
> I'm
> > > not going to pay for THAT." The sales figures will show that these
same
> > > people ARE buying the new version.
> > > -Stuart Becktell


> > > > Are you willing to pay $45 for this enhanced N4? I'm not.

> > > > > 1) we could see if they have improved the damage model

> > > > > 2) you could set the graphics and field options above 19 to see
how
> much
> > > > > lower than low the frame rates might get

> > > > > 3) FFB was better than the limp N3 and N4

> > > > > 4) OpenGL rasterizer was included for a better comparison to N4
> (most
> > >  NVidia
> > > > > users use OpenGL)

> > > > > The improvements I can see look good, although the driver car new
> engine
> > > > > sound is too quiet relative to the other sounds for my liking
(even
> when
> > >  it
> > > > > is set to 100%).

> > > > > Haven't tested much to gauge whether the AI are any better than N4
> but
> > >  if
> > > > > they are, and the frame rates are improved in the final version or
> with
> > > > > OpenGL and if they could get decent feedback in the FFB, I will
not
> > >  hesitate
> > > > > to get this in Feb.

> > > > > Marc

> > > > > --

> > > > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> > > > > to take effect. Reboot now?

> --


> > I would pay $20 a month for online racing, but NOT the current system.

> > I was more than happy to pay that for NROS (though most of us bought the
> > 3-month blocks at around $13 a month).

>     I am one of those that wouldn't pay for such a service.  I did back
when
> TEN first started with the racing and all the way up to 1998/99.  But now
> that the matching system works better for me, I'd rather keep it that way.
> Save money, better connections, and I personally can do something about it
> when the server has fits.  TEN was good for it's time but in my opinion,
> that time is well in the past now that high bandwidth connections are
here,
> cheap, and spreading out all over the place.

> > Payment for a matchmaking system doesn't make sense.

>     This is VERY true.  kind of like paying your ISP twice. ;-)

> > Now, like NROS, paying for high-quality servers, a TRUE rankings system
> > (WON's is very weak compared to NROS) would be worth it.

>     A dedicated server is a good idea but we have that now with the
matching
> system.  There are many dedicated servers on VROC and i can only assume
> there's quite a few on WON(?).  As far as the rankings system,  I liked it
> when i first started racing on TEN but found out how easy it is to
> manipulate and how many were doing just that.  So, i started paying less
and
> less attention to it.  besides that, In My Opionion,  A rankings system is
a
> bit arcadish any more.  If there were a community in the NASCAR sim racing
> such as what the GPL community has, I bet the rankings system would be
less
> and less used and probably the user created rankings system would bring
the
> NASCAR community closer together.

> Just My Opinions though!!

> > One could only wish for NROS to come back.  I'm suprised that Nascar
> itself
> > hasn't shown interest in it.

> > -Larry

>     I thought NASCAR did have interest in NROS?  I remember something
being
> said about it, in fact just a little bit ago someone posted a press
release
> about it here.  I have an original copy of that on my system.  Why NASCAR
> left Online Racing is something I don't know anything about though.

> > Not so on WON.

> !!Everything I say is just an opinion with little to nothing to back it
up!!

>     This is true!  But Remember that TEN was last running three years
ago(?)
> and how many more SimRacers do we have today?  Back then SimRacing online
> was still relatively new so the numbers were quite small.  I think we got
up
> to 6,000 registered drivers and out of them there where many multiple
> accounts.  I haven't heard yet from WON/Sierra what the account numbers
are
> today.  I can imagine it's up there to the 6,000 mark of non-multiple
> accounts (If that's the right way to say it(?)).  With a pay-to-play
system,
> the serious Sim driver (In my opinion) would find a way to race on private
> servers as the racing is always best there.  and the non-serious drivers,
> those that just want to race, will pay-to-play.  So, In my opinion,
(there's
> that phrase again), A Pay-To-Play system will result in the same thing as
> what's on WON now.

>     Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Pay-to-play systems,  I will only
be
> against them if there is no way to race on private servers through the
> Internet.

> Before any major corporation out there gets a greedy idea, I am NOT saying
> that paying for something like WON, simply a match-making service, is
> acceptable.  I am speaking solely of an NROS like, in-house, full ranking
> type of system.

> -Larry

> > > Yes, but the quality of the racing isn't nearly as good :(  High-skill
> > races
> > > under TEN were _relatively_ safe.  Reputations meant a lot more on
TEN.

> > > Not so on WON.

> > !!Everything I say is just an opinion with little to nothing to back it
> up!!

> >     This is true!  But Remember that TEN was last running three years
> ago(?)
> > and how many more SimRacers do we have today?  Back then SimRacing
online
> > was still relatively new so the numbers were quite small.  I think we
got
> up
> > to 6,000 registered drivers and out of them there where many multiple
> > accounts.  I haven't heard yet from WON/Sierra what the account numbers
> are
> > today.  I can imagine it's up there to the 6,000 mark of non-multiple
> > accounts (If that's the right way to say it(?)).  With a pay-to-play
> system,
> > the serious Sim driver (In my opinion) would find a way to race on
private
> > servers as the racing is always best there.  and the non-serious
drivers,
> > those that just want to race, will pay-to-play.  So, In my opinion,
> (there's
> > that phrase again), A Pay-To-Play system will result in the same thing
as
> > what's on WON now.

> >     Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Pay-to-play systems,  I will
only
> be
> > against them if there is no way to race on private servers through the
> > Internet.

> From what I have seen there are plenty of leagues around that do their own
> private racing that this isn't a problem.

> > I think having to invest monthly (i.e. spend $20) would help weed out
the
> > non-serious.  Not all, but some.

> > Before any major corporation out there gets a greedy idea, I am NOT
saying
> > that paying for something like WON, simply a match-making service, is
> > acceptable.  I am speaking solely of an NROS like, in-house, full
ranking
> > type of system.

> > -Larry

> > > > Yes, but the quality of the racing isn't nearly as good :(
High-skill
> > > races
> > > > under TEN were _relatively_ safe.  Reputations meant a lot more on
> TEN.

> > > > Not so on WON.

> > > !!Everything I say is just an opinion with little to nothing to back
it
> > up!!

> > >     This is true!  But Remember that TEN was last running three years
> > ago(?)
> > > and how many more SimRacers do we have today?  Back then SimRacing
> online
> > > was still relatively new so the numbers were quite small.  I think we
> got
> > up
> > > to 6,000 registered drivers and out of them there where many multiple
> > > accounts.  I haven't heard yet from WON/Sierra what the account
numbers
> > are
> > > today.  I can imagine it's up there to the 6,000 mark of non-multiple
> > > accounts (If that's the right way to say it(?)).  With a pay-to-play
> > system,
> > > the serious Sim driver (In my opinion) would find a way to race on
> private
> > > servers as the racing is always best there.  and the non-serious
> drivers,
> > > those that just want to race, will pay-to-play.  So, In my opinion,
> > (there's
> > > that phrase again), A Pay-To-Play system will result in the same thing
> as
> > > what's on WON now.

> > >     Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Pay-to-play systems,  I will
> only
> > be
> > > against them if there is no way to race on private servers through the
> > > Internet.

> > From what I have seen there are plenty of leagues around that do their
own
> > private racing that this isn't a problem.

> > > I think having to invest monthly (i.e. spend $20) would help weed out
> the
> > > non-serious.  Not all, but some.

> > > Before any major corporation out there gets a greedy idea, I am NOT
> saying
> > > that paying for something like WON, simply a match-making service, is
> > > acceptable.  I am speaking solely of an NROS like, in-house, full
> ranking
> > > type of system.

> > > -Larry

> > > > > Yes, but the quality of the racing isn't nearly as good :(
> High-skill
> > > > races
> > > > > under TEN were _relatively_ safe.  Reputations meant a lot more on
> > TEN.

> > > > > Not so on WON.

> > > > !!Everything I say is just an opinion with little to nothing to back
> it
> > > up!!

> > > >     This is true!  But Remember that TEN was last running three
years
> > > ago(?)
> > > > and how many more SimRacers do we have today?  Back then SimRacing
> > online
> > > > was still relatively new so the numbers were quite small.  I think
we
> > got
> > > up
> > > > to 6,000 registered drivers and out of them there where many
multiple
> > > > accounts.  I haven't heard yet from WON/Sierra what the account
> numbers
> > > are
> > > > today.  I can imagine it's up there to the 6,000 mark of
non-multiple
> > > > accounts (If that's the right way to say it(?)).  With a pay-to-play
> > > system,
> > > > the serious Sim driver (In my opinion) would find a way to race on
> > private
> > > > servers as the racing is always best there.  and the non-serious
> > drivers,
> > > > those that just want to race, will pay-to-play.  So, In my opinion,
> > > (there's
> > > > that phrase again), A Pay-To-Play system will result in the same
thing
> > as
> > > > what's on WON now.

> > > >     Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Pay-to-play systems,  I will
> > only
> > > be
> > > > against them if there is no way to race on private servers through
the
> > > > Internet.

> >   I'm sure there would be a group that would willingly pay $20 to be
free
> of
> > wreckers and no-talents.  However, that group would most likely be too
> small
> > to support the OC-3 costs, the server maintence etc etc.  I haven't
looked
> > at the numbers, but how many race on onlineracing.net compared to the
won
> > servers?  Even tho OLR doesn't charge, they still have the inconvience
of
> a
> > separate program and that seems enough to discourage the average simmer.
> > dave henrie

>    The reason I don't use OLR is not because you have to run a separate
> program.  But I
> could not get the service to work from behind my firewall. It was a while
> ago when I
> tried but I think the service basically said if you are behind a firewall
> you are out of luck.
>    If I could open up ports to make it work,  I would have been happy to
try
> OLR  :)
> -Dave B

> From what I have seen there are plenty of leagues around that do their own
> private racing that this isn't a problem.

> > I think having to invest monthly (i.e. spend $20) would help weed out
the
> > non-serious.  Not all, but some.

> > Before any major corporation out there gets a greedy idea, I am NOT
saying
> > that paying for something like WON, simply a match-making service, is
> > acceptable.  I am speaking solely of an NROS like, in-house, full
ranking
> > type of system.

> > -Larry

> > > > Yes, but the quality of the racing isn't nearly as good :(
High-skill
> > > races
> > > > under TEN were _relatively_ safe.  Reputations meant a lot more on
> TEN.

> > > > Not so on WON.

> > > !!Everything I say is just an opinion with little to nothing to back
it
> > up!!

> > >     This is true!  But Remember that TEN was last running three years
> > ago(?)
> > > and how many more SimRacers do we have today?  Back then SimRacing
> online
> > > was still relatively new so the numbers were quite small.  I think we
> got
> > up
> > > to 6,000 registered drivers and out of them there where many multiple
> > > accounts.  I haven't heard yet from WON/Sierra what the account
numbers
> > are
> > > today.  I can imagine it's up there to the 6,000 mark of non-multiple
> > > accounts (If that's the right way to say it(?)).  With a pay-to-play
> > system,
> > > the serious Sim driver (In my opinion) would find a way to race on
> private
> > > servers as the racing is always best there.  and the non-serious
> drivers,
> > > those that just want to race, will pay-to-play.  So, In my opinion,
> > (there's
> > > that phrase again), A Pay-To-Play system will result in the same thing
> as
> > > what's on WON now.

> > >     Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Pay-to-play systems,  I will
> only
> > be
> > > against them if there is no way to race on private servers through the
> > > Internet.

>David G Fisher

>Yes, but the quality of the racing isn't nearly as good :(  High-skill races
>under TEN were _relatively_ safe.  Reputations meant a lot more on TEN.

>Not so on WON.