rec.autos.simulators

I've been racing Indycar and Nascar since they came out, and have been able to setup cars to run competitively against
the AI cars. With the advent of hawaii, I've had to work quite a bit harder in order to be competitive with the HI
(Human Intelligence) contingent. I usually start with the Ace setup and make the changes I feel are necessary to get the
performance I am looking for. Where I have trouble, is finding that last mile in order to run with the various track
specialists out there. Every once in a while I will run into someone that will make me re evaluate one of my setups.
This is where I need some help, or at least a pointer to a good reference. When I've got a car that I think I've eaked
the last bit of speed out of, and it get's blown away, I go into a very time consuming mode of trial and error setup
changes.

What I think has happened is that I've got a combination of settings that has an upper performance limit. In order to
get beyond that limit, the relative combination of setup parameters needs to be modified. It's almost like I have to
throw the car away and start from a different point. Where I am a little confused in making the determination of what
parameter is the best to change in order to effect a particular handling characteristic. In most cases, there are 2 or 3
things to change to change the handling in a particular direction, but which is the correct one? To make a car have more
understeer, do you move the weight bias forward, soften the rear shocks, or fuss with cross weight? Or is it some
combination of all of these?

Does anyone know of a reference that describes the application impact of the parameters we can modify in Nascar Racing?
I've looked at the material on the PITS, but it's not quite what I'm looking for.  What I am looking for is not
something that says moving weight forward will increase understeer, rather a reference that takes you through how
modifying a parameter transfers to the track entering, during, and exiting a turn. And maybe even discusses the merits
of making one change over another one (weight transfer vs shock settings).

Sorry for blabbing so much, but I've spent 100's of hours setting up cars, and thought I needed to spend at least a few
minutes trying to get my point (frustration) across.

Gary Hamann
Fremont, Ca

"Piece a Cake"

IMHO you are correct about their being competing factors which limit the
ultimate performance of a setup.  

Tim Daley
I'd rather be lucky than FAST!

--------------
Michael Kirton

Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

Vetteracer

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1726  (check it out)

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With the advent of Hawaii, I'm spending many hours each week working on
setups for one track. I've finally gotten my driving consistent enough that
I can actually feel a significant difference in car handling when I change
a shock setting by 2 or 3 percent, or weight bias by 5 lbs. I finally grok
the interaction between all the settings. Even the mystery of tire stagger
and camber is starting to come clear.

I've also been waiting for a book to come out that would reveal all the
secrets. It finally dawned on me last night while I was working on my North
Wilkesboro setup, that no book can do the subject justice. Until you can
actually feel what those little tweaks are doing to the car, no book can
possibly help you. Once you get to that point, you've tweaked enough setups
that you already know what to do. It's one of those Zen things.

Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports

Chuck, I'll do some beta for you.  I've got lot's of setup and
driving experienc at all ICR2 tracks.  Plus, I'm a VB and C
programmer for DOS and Windows (3.x, 95, NT)--I'm not volunteering
programing time! ha.  I've considered a VB program similar to your
efforts but without commercial interest; considering the number of
hours an ICR2 driver spends in the garage and in preseason testing,
your program will be a good investment for them.  I'm interested.  I
put in 90 hours and over 5000 laps at Milwaukee to get car settings
that would race with 40 gallons of fuel, right front hard compound,
left rear medium compound and opponent strength set to 100 per cent.  
I did almost this much work at Michigan,and still, I can only run it
with opponent stength set to 99 per cent.  The recent patch to ICR2
has required minor setup changes.  Your program could be a blessing.  
I enjoy driving and racing over garage work, but I'll be a mechanic
until a program such as yours is available.

Glenn