rec.autos.simulators

Respect Sierra/Papyrus?!?

Eldre

Respect Sierra/Papyrus?!?

by Eldre » Fri, 21 May 1999 04:00:00

Don't care - I can't afford it... :)

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Pat Dotso

Respect Sierra/Papyrus?!?

by Pat Dotso » Fri, 21 May 1999 04:00:00


> Um, interesting point on the FF there, wonder what effect the 1.1 GPL
> patch will have on fps - anyone know?

My estimate is that it's about 5-10%.  It's going
to depend on your system and what type of wheel
you have, though.  I'm using a K6-2 333 and a Force RS.

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

Kirk Lan

Respect Sierra/Papyrus?!?

by Kirk Lan » Fri, 21 May 1999 04:00:00

Well, the PII 350 part is right - one overclocked to 466 :)
That, and a $30 Rendition 4MB video card, GPL in 640X480 35+ fps 100% of the
time

--
Kirk Lane

ICQ: 28171652




>>I tend to agree with you here.  Another thing to consider is that most of
>>what
>>is in view while driving a Nascar simulation is the***pit and that is
>>stationary.  I think the hardware comment is just a story to buy more time
so
>>Sierra can use the Papy crew to punch out another N2.

>I disagree, the hardware requirement sounds quite reasonable to me.  As
Alison
>has already pointed out, it takes a PII 350 and SLI'ed V2s to run GPL at
>reasonable graphics settings.  The amount of AI cars makes a big
difference.
>Take the same physics engine and add in:

>Aerodynamics calculations
>More graphics on the cars
>Twice the number of AI cars
>Spotter speech
>Heads up display
>Pace car and Yellows
>Force Feedback - probably the biggest hit

>I'm willing to bet that a PIII 600 would need most of the graphics turned
off
>to run at 20 FPS.  If they came out with that, everyone would be crying
about
>that.  These guys just can't win. (In this forum, at least)

>Don McCorkle
>Libertarian Motorsports

Eldre

Respect Sierra/Papyrus?!?

by Eldre » Sat, 22 May 1999 04:00:00


>So after screwing the realism in Red Baron II Sierra are now going to
>screw the racing sims as well........ that is indeed sad news.

>Dolle Dolf

How bad was RB II compared to RB I?  Just curious...

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David Kar

Respect Sierra/Papyrus?!?

by David Kar » Sat, 22 May 1999 04:00:00

Um, a question from one who doesn't have FF, and deosn't plan to ($$$
reason, no other):

Is that estimate (5-10%) up or down?

--David



> > Um, interesting point on the FF there, wonder what effect the 1.1 GPL
> > patch will have on fps - anyone know?

> My estimate is that it's about 5-10%.  It's going
> to depend on your system and what type of wheel
> you have, though.  I'm using a K6-2 333 and a Force RS.

> --
> Pat Dotson
> IMPACT Motorsports
> http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

Pat Dotso

Respect Sierra/Papyrus?!?

by Pat Dotso » Sat, 22 May 1999 04:00:00


> Um, a question from one who doesn't have FF, and deosn't plan to ($$$
> reason, no other):

> Is that estimate (5-10%) up or down?

Down of course.

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

Scott Vel

Respect Sierra/Papyrus?!?

by Scott Vel » Sat, 22 May 1999 04:00:00

Down of course. Nothing in life is free.

Of course, you CAN turn it off, if that 5-10% is a problem.

Scott


says...

> Um, a question from one who doesn't have FF, and deosn't plan to ($$$
> reason, no other):

> Is that estimate (5-10%) up or down?

> --David




> > > Um, interesting point on the FF there, wonder what effect the 1.1 GPL
> > > patch will have on fps - anyone know?

> > My estimate is that it's about 5-10%.  It's going
> > to depend on your system and what type of wheel
> > you have, though.  I'm using a K6-2 333 and a Force RS.

> > --
> > Pat Dotson
> > IMPACT Motorsports
> > http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

dolle_d..

Respect Sierra/Papyrus?!?

by dolle_d.. » Sat, 22 May 1999 04:00:00




writes:

> >So after screwing the realism in Red Baron II Sierra are now going to
> >screw the racing sims as well........ that is indeed sad news.

> >Dolle Dolf

> How bad was RB II compared to RB I?  Just curious...

> __

RBI was state of the art when it came out, and RBII was essentially
already obsolete when it arrived, not a lot to set it apart from Wings
of Glory of late 1995. The problems with RBII/3d are with the flight
modelling.  They were promising the "most realistic flight model ever"
blah di blah and the flight model was plain awful on release. It then
went through several rehashes, and was never fixed. Hackers have tried,
succesfully to a certain extent, to change the flight models.  However
when certain deficiencies were corrected, most notably speed bleed in
turns (with the Sierra flight model you could turn and turn forever
without the plane losing speed or alt) the AI cannot fly the planes and
crash. The campaign is almost the same as the one in RBI. Unfortunately
RBII does not have a flight recorder. The saving grace of the game is
the plethora of third party patches, and the dynamic campaign, or more
precisely, a dynamic "little world" where other squadrons, friend and
foe, go about their business. It is kind of cool to send an extra
patrol out on a mission as a squadron commander, finish your own
mission and then go over to find that patrol still performing their
duties. The damage model after the latest patch was also excellent.
Historical inaccuracies have been corrected by third party patchers
(Sierra did a lousy job there, living aces were reported as dead,
victory tallies were wrong), plane colours have been corrected, there
are a few damage models to choose from, there is a "squadron manager"
which lets you type after combat reports and the like, and now there
are people improving the graphics.  I have not tried those yet, as I
seriously overate on RBII/3d, and the original third party improvements
to the flight model were abolished as the AI cannot fly the patched FM
planes. What really pissed me off about RBII/3d is the Sierra
statements continually contradicting themselves. When it came out 3d
acceleration had already become the norm in games, but according to
Sierra the game engine was too old to be able to implement 3d
acceleration. Of course 6 months down the road (and 2 FM rehashes
later) and complaint after complaint the decision was made to give 3d
accelaration in a patch, and then Sierra went on thumping their chest
about giving the simmers a "free 3d patch". As multiplayer had been
screwed up with the initial release that was also in the "free patch"
so more self congratulatory shoulder patting. When it appeared that the
FM in that particular patch was as bad as it had been, and mmp was
still porked, another "free patch" was unleashed upon the simming
hordes, and more self-back  patting from Sierra. Of course the icing
was the release of the 3d boxed version which was the same as the mmp
patched RBII. RBII owners could get that for free, with a refund upon
sending the RBII CD. I actually got my money 4 months later.

Dolle Dolf

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